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sell out!

MMMMM HMMMMM……..

What’s the big deal about him falling asleep? The man is old and he’s been making the rounds campaigning for his wife. I bet if I was on that stage, I would have fallen asleep too.

dont be fooled… bill fell alseep on purpose it’s all a gimmick to draw all the negative press away from hillary and on to him…

the clintons are hounds…

I don’t know Bill…

Looks like your going through a fall from grace..

Just like a black man to have it all then loose it..

I’m joking!! I just heard the the haters engines gearing up. But seriously….Bill needs to fall back!!

Cue Ms Jazz and her advertising just as soon as she gets the dick out her mouth…

While I’ve had enough of his racial (not racist) comments I definately didn’t judge him for falling asleep at church. I done it myself and I have seen Deacons and Pastors do it as well sitting in the pulpit. It happens to the best of us.

Now tell me why he brought up Jessie Jackson’s name? That’s what I want to know.

In my book, Bill can do no wrong (smile)!

I do agree w/ him tho, Obama’s wife Michelle kicked off the hateration on Hilary…and then all Hilary’s comment where twisted…they are seriously hating on this woman for no reason! But the thing that really pisses me off, is that the media is not even showing how Obama attacks her! It’s as if the media is soo biased against Hilary, b/c ‘they’ don’t want her to win!

Sometimes I think it’s all a conspiracy to set Obama up to fail. I mean it would make sense. The media is displaying Obama as this great, charismatic, articulate, leader of change type of guy (not that I’m completely disagreeing w/ this observation) and then they’re trying to display Hilary as a racist by twisting her comments and actions…w/ headlines asking if she could cry her way back to the White House? WTF? I can’t believe that nobody is surprised about all the positive coverage of Obama and all the negative ones of Hilary? It just stands to reason that the media…along w/ other powerful people…are trying to get the masses to vote Obama for the pres primaries b/c they’ll know that a black man running will ensure that the Republicans will gain control of the white house…b/c they all know that if Hilary wins the democratic nomination…republicans won’t stand a chance in hell! Just my 2 cents!

kkoes

PRESIDENT CLINTON AND VICE PRESIDENT GORE

Working on Behalf of African Americans

Economy

Nearly 18 Million New Jobs. More than 90 percent of the new jobs have been created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Record-Low African American Unemployment. The unemployment rate for African Americans has fallen from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 8.9 percent in 1998 — the lowest annual level on record (data first collected in 1972)

Median Income of African American Households Is Up $3,354. The median income of African American households rose 4.3 percent (or $1,029) in 1997. And since 1993, the median income of African American households has increased from $21,696 to $25,050 — $3,354 or a 15-percent increase, adjusted for inflation, between 1993 and 1997.

Real Wages Are Rising for African Americans. The real wages of African Americans have risen rapidly in the past two years, up about 5.8 percent for African American men and 6.2 percent for African American women since 1996.

Tax Cuts For Low-Income Working Families. President Clinton’s 1993 Economic Plan provided tax cuts to 15 million hard-pressed working families by expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). The average family with two kids who received the EITC received a tax cut of $1,026. In 1997, the EITC lifted 1.1 million African Americans out of poverty.

Largest Four-Year Drop in African American Poverty in More than Twenty-Five Years. Since 1993, the African American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent to 26.5 percent — the largest four-year drop in African American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1971) and 26.5 percent is the lowest level on record (data collected since 1959). While this decrease marks significant progress, President Clinton will continue to fight for policies that help to raise incomes andreduce poverty.

Child Poverty Among African Americans Down To Lowest Level on Record. In 1997, the African American child poverty rate fell from 39.9 percent in 1996 to 37.2 percent — its lowest level on record (data collected since 1959). Since 1993, the child poverty rate among African-Americans has dropped from 46.1 percent to 37.2 percent — the biggest four-year drop on record.

Minimum Wage Increased. The President raised the minimum wage to $5.15 an hour — directly benefitting 1.3 million African American workers.

Fighting for Paycheck Equity. The President has called on Congress to pass legislation to strengthen laws prohibiting wage discrimination. In 1997, the median earnings of African American women represented 65 percent of the median earnings for all men.

Two and a Half Times More Small Business Loans to African American Entrepreneurs. Between 1993 and 1997 the Small Business Administration (SBA) approved more than 9,000 loans to African American entrepreneurs under the 7(a) and 504 loan programs. In 1997 alone, the Small Business Administration granted 1,900 loans, worth $286 million, to African American small business owners, two and a half times the number of loans granted in 1992.

Supporting Minority Business Communities and Increasing Access to Capital. Building on the efforts of the SBA, Vice President Gore unveiled aggressive plans to increase lending and business services to the African American and Hispanic business communities nationwide. The SBA has set a goal of providing an estimated total of $1.86 billion in loans to African American small businesses over a three-year period. In addition, the Vice President announced an unprecedented agreement between SBA and the “Big Three” U.S. automakers to increase subcontracting awards to minority businesses by nearly $3 billion over the next three years — a 50 percent increase over current levels.

Ensuring Minority Business Owners Have a Fair Opportunity to Compete. The President signed the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century into law on June 9, 1998. The Act protects the Disadvantaged Business Enterprise (DBE) Program, a program that ensures that minority and women owned businesses have an opportunity to compete for transportation projects. The Administration helped defeat an amendment to the House version of this bill that would have eliminated the DBE Program. In a different measure, the President also approved the creation of a new program to target assistance to minority-owned businesses in industries that continue to reflect the effects of discrimination. As a result, thousands of minority-owned businesses will be able to compete more effectively for government contracts.

Working on Behalf of Minority Farmers. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) is working to strengthen programs and increase outreach targeted to underserved communities, including increasing its lending to minority and women producers. Between 1993 and 1998, direct lending to these groups has nearly doubled — from $46.5 million in FY93 to $91 million in FY98. The Administration is committed to righting any past wrongs by federal employees and worked with the Congress in 1998 to craft language contained in the Agriculture Appropriations bill that waives thetwo-year statute of limitations on discrimination complaints against USDA’s farm and housing loan programs. This waiver allows compensation to be provided to many minority farmers who were victims of discrimination by USDA from the early 1980’s through the 1990’s. On Jan. 5,1999, Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman announced an historic agreement to settle the discrimination lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Agriculture brought by African American farmers. As President Clinton said regarding the settlement, “Today’s action is an important step in Secretary Glickman’s ongoing efforts to rid the Agriculture Department of discriminatory behavior and redress any harm that has been caused by past discrimination against African-American family farmers.”

Expanding Investment in Urban and Rural Areas. Spurring economic development in distressed communities, the Clinton Administration has created 31 Empowerment Zones and more than 100 Enterprise Communities that are creating new jobs, new opportunities and stronger communities. The FY99 budget included $60 million in flexible discretionary funding for the next round of Empowerment Zones and Enterprise Communities.

Helping People Get to Work. The Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century authorizes $750 million over five years, and the FY99 budget included $75 million, for the President’s Access to Jobs initiative and reverse commute grants to help communities design innovative transportation solutions so that families who need to work can get to work.

Providing Incentives to Save. The President signed into law a five-year, $125 million demonstration program for Individual Development Accounts, providing incentives for low income families to save for a first home, higher education, or to start a new business, effectively completing his 1992 community empowerment agenda.

Assisting Families with Housing Vouchers. Congress approved the President’s full request for 50,000 new vouchers exclusively for people who need housing assistance to make the transition from welfare to work.

Homeownership Is Up. There are more than seven million new homeowners since the President took office. African American homeownership has increased 20 percent with 974,000 new African American homeowners since the first quarter of 1994.

Helping More Families Become Homeowners with the “Play-by-the-Rules” Homeownership Initiative. The FY99 budget included $25 million for the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation to start this new initiative that will make homeownership more accessible to families who have a good rental history but have difficulty purchasing a home; 10,000 lower-income and minority families who are currently renting will benefit from this initiative.

Expanding Low-Income Housing Tax Credit by 40 Percent. In 1993, President Clinton fulfilled hispromise to permanently extend the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit, spurring the private development of low-income housing and helping to build 75,000-90,000 housing units each year. President Clinton has proposed to expand the credit by 40 percent. Over the next five years, this expansion would mean an additional 150,000 to 180,000 quality affordable rental units.

Building One America. The President has led the nation in an effort to become One America in the 21st Century: a place where we respect others’ differences and, at the same time, embrace the common values that unite us. Dr. John Hope Franklin, Advisory Board Chair, and Rev. Suzan Johnson Cook served on the Advisory Board to the President’s Initiative on Race, which the President charged with overseeing this effort. The President, the Administration and the Advisory Board were actively involved in public outreach efforts — including holding numerous public meetings and town halls — to engage Americans across the nation in this historic effort. One of the critical elements of the President’s Initiative on Race was identifying, highlighting and sharing with the nation promising practices — local and national efforts to promote racial reconciliation. The Advisory Board presented their final report to the President on September 18, 1998, and recommended that conversations on race continue.

Creating an Administration that Looks Like One America. The President appointed the most diverse Cabinet and Administration in history. The Clinton Cabinet includes three African Americans: Rodney Slater, Secretary of the Department of Transportation; Togo West, Jr., Secretary of Veterans Affairs and Alexis Herman, Secretary of Labor. Additionally, African Americans serve in the Administration as Surgeon General, Deputy Attorney General for the Department of Justice, Director of the National Park Service, Deputy Secretary of Commerce, Department of Education General Counsel and as the Department of Education’s Chief of Staff. Thirteen percent of Clinton Administration appointees are African American, which is twice as many African Americans as any previous administration. White House appointees include: Bob Nash, Assistant to the President and Director of Presidential Personnel; Thurgood Marshall, Jr., Assistant to the President and Director of Cabinet Affairs; Minyon Moore, Assistant to the President and Director of Political Affairs; Cheryl Mills, Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy Counsel and Ben Johnson, Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy Director of Public Liaison; Alphonso (Al) Maldon, Deputy Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs; and Tracey Thornton, Deputy Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs.

Increasing the Number of Judicial Appointments. President Clinton has named 14 African Americans as U.S. Attorneys and 12 African Americans as U.S. Marshals. The President has nominated 57 African Americans to the Federal bench, 16 percent of his total Federal bench nominations.

Ordered an Assessment of Affirmative Action Programs. The President ordered a comprehensive review of the government’s affirmative action programs which concluded that affirmative action is still an effective and important tool to expand educational and economic opportunity to all Americans. This review of federal affirmative action programs has helped to ensure that these programs are fair and effective and that they can survive legal challenges. As a result, programs that benefit African Americans, including students, working men and women, and business owners, remain in effect andare more likely to be upheld by the courts.

Reducing Backlog and Expanding Alternative Dispute Resolution at Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). The FY99 budget included $279 million — a $37 million increase over the previous year — to significantly expand EEOC’s alternative dispute resolution program and reduce the backlog of private sector discrimination complaints. The final budget fully funds the President’s request — providing the first real increase for EEOC in several years.

Creating a National Memorial to Honor Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. In July of 1998, President Clinton signed a new measure authorizing the creation of a national monument to Dr. King on the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

Opposed California Prop. 209 and Similar Measures. The Clinton Administration strongly opposes state and local initiatives to eliminate affirmative action programs that expand opportunities for African Americans and others. The Administration opposed Proposition 209 in California and filed amicus briefs opposing Prop. 209, which currently prohibits state affirmative action programs. The Clinton Administration opposed a similar initiative in Houston, which was defeated and opposed an initiative in Washington that is similar to Prop. 209. In all these cases, representatives of the administration have spoken out strongly against these initiatives as unfair and a barrier to equality.

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Great post that I thought should be repeated.

@ Coop -

Again I ask, where was this outrage when the Clinton’s where in office? It amazes me that everybody in their mama are googling all this negative ish…but back in the early 90′s I didn’t see not one black person advocating for Bill’s resignation…or did I see anyone talking about how horrible of a job he did while in office…

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@Angel_Minded

I never said one bad thing about the Clinton’s.

KILLING SOFTLY … SO THEY THINK

(PART ONE)

By Dr. Carlos E. Russell

Barack Obama is the first African American who has ever had a realistic shot at becoming President of this country. While others have made the race, they ran to espouse and expose pertinent issues but, in truth, their chances to claim possession of the “Whitehouse” were not worth a tinker’s dam. This is not to minimize the importance of the races these men and women ran. Neither is it being said to infer any negativity on the merits of their candidacies or to impugn their motives. Their involvement was crucial and, in many ways, set the stage for Senator Obama’s bid. It is said solely to place the magnitude of Mr. Obama’s quest and the challenges he faces in its proper perspective. Obama’s realistic opportunity has served to uncover many of the not so hidden realities in the Black community and unleash the not too hidden forces that fear his possible victory.

Here is what I mean. Obama’s ability to remain a credible candidate has compelled those Blacks who have been historically loyal to those who fed them at the through to now make a choice. Some have chosen to publicly express their loyalty to those who once fed them and to work against Mr. Obama. Let me be clear! That is their right! Others, who style themselves as “super-duper” blacks but who realistically command little within our heterogeneous community, in order to maintain their “revolutionary” status now suggest that he is “not Black enough.” What precisely does that mean? There are still others who, seeking an excuse to stay in lockstep with their “white friends.” regurgitate the “Clintonian” mantra “he does not have the experience.”

Sadly, in my view, those who have chosen to take any of the above positions do not have a clue as to the reality of America today and how close they are to be totally irrelevant in the schemata and continuing saga of white America. Worst, and again my view, those who do so, I would argue, suffer from an organic dislike of selves and are intrinsically interwoven with the vision and peculiar interest of their former overt slave masters.

Some Black women, I have been made to understand, have been expressing a political identification with their gender rather than with their race forgetting, or perhaps, have never seen the faded pictures of those smiling white women standing around a lynching tree and now believe that the playing field is level find no contradiction in identifying themselves with their gender and not their race. Jenna has not yet penetrated their psyches.

The Jewish people rightfully say “Never Again” Somehow we seem to have forgotten our past and are willing to forgive and forget. One can forgive but one should never forget.

I am not suggesting or inferring that Obama should be supported simply because he is Black that would be simplistic and suicidal. For starters remember Clarence Thomas! What I am suggesting is that the arguments presented by some Blacks for not supporting his candidacy are politically motivated designed to hide their self deprecation and, as such, are blatantly nonsensical. What experience did Harry S.Truman, the haberdasher, as he was called, have? None compared to Obama’s.

The not “Black enough” does not deserve a response. Suffice it to ask “If Obama is not Black enough then who among the candidate is? Hillary? Please… Let’s be real!

I understand loyalty but again loyalty at what cost? Is a victory by Hillary more important to the Black community than a victory by Obama? I think not! No matter how “progressive” she “could” turn out to be, it could never compare with the victory of a progressive African American! Think, for a moment, what the sound of “President Obama” would mean to so many young Black men and women across this nation! In a sense it would be like what JFK’s victory meant to Catholics—especially Irish Catholics.

Recognizing the self imposed dilemma facing some Blacks; those whites who viscerally oppose his candidacy are salivating at the possibility of a Black split which would guarantee a victory for Ms. Clinton and keep the primary power seat in America white as snow. For them, “better a woman than a Black!” Hence, as a means of manipulating the minds of the electorate– especially of those whites who surprisingly have strongly supported Mr. Obama — there are now polls that constantly speak of “the split” in the Black community. This, as I see it, is designed to send the message “see his own community does not support him, why should we?” Obviously, they intend it to have an equal effect on the Black community with a slightly different twist “He can’t win why should I waste my vote.”

Blacks and the growing number of whites and Latinos who want a change in direction: who want a thoughtful President, one who desires to reconstruct America and set it on a new path should not be fooled! I believe that Barack Obama can, and, with our continued collective effort, support and steadfastness, will win. If this were not so those who oppose him would not be trying so hard to derail his candidacy by promoting the alleged division among Blacks, the possibility of his being assassinated and the inevitable “coronation” of Hillary Clinton. In my view, Ms. Clinton is not unbeatable. Let us not forget that Truman beat Dewey!

Adam Powell said it best…. “Keep the Faith Baby!” So too did Frederick Douglass when he said “without struggle there is no progress.”

Let us not permit them to take us out of stride or for a ride down never-never land!

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@helltothanaw

I think Angel_Minded is say that some people are forget about the good that the Clinton’s have done.

Finally the truth:

Bill and Hillary Clinton are race baiters!!!!

Hillary should never be able to win on the Backs of Blacks, they proved that they are no better than your average Southern race baiter, as soon as there is a problem they look for the nearest person of color to attack and lie about.

Angel_Minded

In my book, Bill can do no wrong (smile)!

I do agree w/ him tho, Obama’s wife Michelle kicked off the hateration on Hilary…and then all Hilary’s comment where twisted…they are seriously hating on this woman for no reason! But the thing that really pisses me off, is that the media is not even showing how Obama attacks her! It’s as if the media is soo biased against Hilary, b/c ‘they’ don’t want her to win!

Sometimes I think it’s all a conspiracy to set Obama up to fail. I mean it would make sense. The media is displaying Obama as this great, charismatic, articulate, leader of change type of guy (not that I’m completely disagreeing w/ this observation) and then they’re trying to display Hilary as a racist by twisting her comments and actions…w/ headlines asking if she could cry her way back to the White House? WTF? I can’t believe that nobody is surprised about all the positive coverage of Obama and all the negative ones of Hilary? It just stands to reason that the media…along w/ other powerful people…are trying to get the masses to vote Obama for the pres primaries b/c they’ll know that a black man running will ensure that the Republicans will gain control of the white house…b/c they all know that if Hilary wins the democratic nomination…republicans won’t stand a chance in hell! Just my 2 cents!

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I agree with a lot of what you have said but in no way can Hilary or Obama win if they are nominated.

@Gymo

In no way is that the truth. The true issue is the media twisting everything around.

‘helltonaw’

I sincerly doubt that all the people that have wrote…or should I say…copy and pasted anything negative about the Clintons felt anything negative about him during his term in office. Now you claimed to have disliked him even back then…smh…yeah I’m sure…I guess it was that level of dislike and digust that got him elected for a 2nd term…right? lol- the thing is, is that the Clinton’s have never done anything negative or blantantly racist to any black person in America…but if believing the media’s proganda about the Clinton’s help you sleep at night…then more power to ya! But deep down inside I think…and always have believed that black people are racist, and biased. And this election is proving my theory! People are letting the media pump ya up w/ this black savior…Obama…don’t fall for the hype!

Coop

@helltothanaw

I think Angel_Minded is say that some people are forget about the good that the Clinton’s have done.

^^^Coop, if that’s the case then she/he needs to say it and stop insinuating, that because a black person talks bad about or disagrees with Clintons, they are racist or biased. That’s ignorant and racist in and of itself. NEWS FLASH!!!! some of us black folks, can actually make informed independent

thoughts and decisions on our own.. SMFH…

the attacks did not start until Mr. Obama took Iowa-an mostly white state. Billary KNEW that would dangerous-Obama took 24% of the white vote because of Billary’s focus on the black community. Their plans to poison white voters to not vote for him cause Obama is black has severely backfired, and will continue to do so.

Billary claims experience. Maybe from Bill;’s side, but not Hillary.

We need a change.

We can change.

Yes, we change.

Obama is change we can believe in.

http://www.barackobama.com

Obama 2008

24% of the white vote in S.C.

http://www.theflyest.wordpress.com/

can anyone provide a link to the article or video where michelle kicked off the hateration on hillary?

by the way, check the south carolina numbers, prior to the caucus, msm made it appear it was a predominantly white state, after the massive turnout now it is a predominantly black state, did the census change there in a week or something? any ideas?

‘helltonaw’

SMH…your level of ignorance is stifling! Lol – Anything that Bill/Hilary have said about Obama they’ve said it in retailiation of the Obama administration. What do you expect them to do? Just sit back and let the media and Obama slander their name and record? That’s complete bullshyt! As I’ve said before Michelle Obama kicked off the hateration when she made that comment about Bill’s infidelity – which was completely below the belt – or side swipping – lol! Let’s not forget that Obama twisted Hilary’s comment about MLK – and just so you know, she was right – she acknowledged MLK’s place during the Civil Rights Movement but also stated that it took SOMEONE IN CONGRESS TO LEGALIZE MLK dream…or else it would still be A DREAM!

Now, as far as I remember Bill had an extremely high approval rating…from both whites and blacks…hmmm…something to think about…I think you need to do some UNBIASED research before you start slandering anyone!

Both Clintons are liars.

@ helltothanaw

As a matter of fact, yes I do! I do call you and every other black person that agrees w/ you ignorant!

What lie are you talking about? Are you referring to when Bill denied receiving a blow job? Okay, so he lied to save face, but he doesn’t owe you nor me an explanation about what he does in his personal life. The only person he owes any explanation or apology to is his wife. Secondly, if what he does in his personal life doesn’t directly affect the American people, how is this your problem? Obama flips/flops everytime it’s convienent for him, yet you call Clinton a liar? To me that is a clear example of being biased. And what makes you a racist, is b/c you refuse to vote or choose to vote for someone based on race.

@helltothanaw…

no disrespect but how can you be speechless at that comment? its called a dirty campaign an nothin more. bill or his wife are nor racists. people dont remember when bill was in office their was no war(maybe a few police actions like what happened in bosnia,an somalia)but we were by all means friends with the russians( a nuclear power),we were even cool with yasser arafat.(PLO leader)the point is we havent had peace like that since bush took office.

@ helltothanaw

Furthermore, what racist comment has Bill made?

The media is turning this into a race thing, not the Clintons.

2008 is OBAMA’s time!and I think Bill Clinton knows it but like he said Hillary is his wife and he loves her and has to defend and support her.

I’ve considered many possibilities, even a bipartisan ticket. But I’m beginning to see that OBAMA/EDWARDS can win.

OBAMA 2008!

YES HE CAN!

OBAMA 2008!

@Coop

In no way is that the truth. The true issue is the media twisting everything around.

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Coop, don’t be silly, we heard these statements from Bill Clinton mouth.

He made these anti-Black race baiting statements and we/I heard him say them in his speeches.

Coop, please don’t apologize for the Clintons, have too many Blacks doing that against other Blacks.

The Clintons race-baiting was so bad that %70 of Whites in South Carolina said the Clintons were race baiting. (see CNN poll)

Sorry for the typos-typing too fast:

—– —— ——-

The Clintons race-baiting was so bad that 70% of Whites in South Carolina said the Clintons were race baiting. (see CNN poll)

and to the people with such bad memories

there was a terrorist attack during clinton’s administration…

bush was inaugurated in 2001, the same year of the 9/11 attacks…..partially his fault and partially the fault of the previous administration who deeply hurt ties to the middle eastern leaders

keith.

@helltothanaw…

no disrespect but how can you be speechless at that comment? its called a dirty campaign an nothin more.

^^^That still doesn’t make it acceptable, Keith.. Are you telling me that you aren’t fed up with people doing and saying anything to get into the White House? If you run a dirty campaign, the is testment to what lengths you will go to get what you want. How can you expect people to think highly of you?

@ ari

Thank you.

Ok so what is it called when Obama flip flops? What’s that called?

One of the interesting things that I saw on, ‘The View,’ was how they was saying in France the president (I think he was the pres) had gotten a divorce and was dating a younger woman…and the people of France didn’t care one way or the other…b/c he was a good leader! Up unitl the whole ‘scandal’ began everyone pretty much agreed that Bill was an excellent president and now he’s a racist?

So let me ask this, if I were to tell you that Martin Luther King was an adulter and communist would that take away everything that he’s done for the black community? SMDH…

I get the impression that there are people on this blog saying to Black people “The Clintons own you and you don’t have a choice so shut up and vote for Hillary”

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slavery is over, I repeat, slavery is over, Black can vote for or support whoever they want.

END OF NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did not do much for Blacks, take a look at the stats for College enrollments for Blacks, take a look at the pay disparity between Blacks and Whites, they didn’t change, but if you were an upper middle class Black or White then you made money on the stock market. There was no new initiative launched by Clinton to help poor Blacks, none!

So, slippery Bill don’t come race baiting to the Black community, or there will be more South Carolina throughout the country.

Angel_Minded

So let me ask this, if I were to tell you that Martin Luther King was an adulter and communist would that take away everything that he’s done for the black community? SMDH…

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So that’s what the Clintons are now spreading against MLK. What’s the plan destroy a great Black leader and it will force Blacks to worship Bill and Hillary.

@Coop

Your points on all the things that Bill has done for blacks was on point. But lets not forget a few other things:

Crime Bill — Three strikes and your out anyone? Also in 1995 the US Sentencing Commission recommended equalizing the quantity of crack and powder cocaine that would trigger a mandatory sentence. Congress rejected the recommendation and Bill signed it into law.

Lani Guinier — Remember her? Bill nominted her for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights. Conservatives called her the “Quota Queen”. When she was getting slammed by the conservatives and the press for her views, Bill withdrew her nomination and acted like he didn’t know she was for racial quotas as opposed to affirmative action. However he’d know her for years and knew her position on the issue, but sold her out instead of having her back.

Rawanda!! — How many people died and our first black president did nothing? Was it even officially recognized as a Genocide?

And please don’t get me started on that so-called welfare reform…..

Now, I will be the first to admit that I benefited career wise with Clinton in office. The mid to late 90s was a great time for my field (technical writer) but, policywise Bill hasn’t always done right by us. And the things he said up til the SC primary and after Obama one, have completely turned me off. I live in Charleston, SC and it was ugly watching the news every night. Oh yeah I guess you can tell I voted for Obama .

that would be after Obama won

my bad.

Clinton needs to play his position as an elder statesman. Look at Al Gore. Go do something positive. Stay out of the political mudslinging.

Obama has the advantage of looking new and fresh. I think at this point, Americans are sick (and scared) of the same old same old. It’s like another Clinton might work out about as well as another Bush did. Not that Hillary is anywhere near as bad as Dubya, but I think that’s what people are feeling.

Anyway, TEAM OBAMA!!!!!

@ Kim – there will never be a perfect president or candidate. After reading all the negative things that you’ve said about the Clintons, do you honestly believe that Obama will have a perfect presidency? When people are inexperienced they have a tendacy to make more errors, as oppose to someone who’s used to the system of politics. It’s easy for you to write up all the negatives of his terms, but what about the benefits?

@ Gymo

Nobody is asking you to worship anybody! It is what it is. Anybody w/ an ounce of sense will tell you that there was nothing racist about her comment. See this is what I mean by biased and racist. Everything that Hilary does is magnified 100x but when Obama says or does anything that’s less than flattering, it gets swept under the rug. It’s all a conspiracy and propaganda.

helltothanaw

Okay I only read like the first sentence of your comment before I felt the need to respond.

So MLK needs to be held to the highest level in government before you or anyone else can hold him accountable for his actions? What kind of bullshyt is this? MLK has a special day in rememberance of all the things that he’s done for black people! So it’s okay for him to have a special place in history for the positive things that he’s done, but yet nobody talks about his questionable behavior in his personal life?

To a lot of white people, MLK represents ‘us’ so technically that same idealogy, about the pres of the u.s representing the american people should still apply in MLK situation? Right?

“can anyone provide a link to the article or video where michelle kicked off the hateration on hillary?”———————————————————————————————

Back in August of last year, Michele said something like “How can we expect her (Hillary) to be able to run the Whitehouse, when she can’t run her own house.” She was referring to President Clinton’s very public infidelity.

The funny thing is that Clinton’s barely raised an eyebrow to that comment. Then when Obama defeated them in Iowa, the gloves came off. The Clintons decided to try to turn it into a race and gender election. Clinton supporters will have you believe that Obama’s camp started the mud-slinging and they always point to what Michele said way back in August. In the words of Bill Clinton…Give me a Break!

****needs to be in the highest level of government before anyone can…

****typos

who said anything about being a perfect president….its about who can do that job the best…and honestly dirty campaigning only gives off that idea that your position isn’t good enough to stand on its own, so you have to knock the opposition down to build yourself up..

i have never supported that..and will never support that

there will always be pros and cons to a president’s term in office and it’s foolish to pick and choose.

the reality is…you are talking more about BILL than you are about hilary..and last time i checked bill isn’t running for president

President Bill Clinton did not do anything for Blacks.

During the Clinton era Whites got really, really rich, Blacks got a few more jobs.

There was an economic up turn in the U.S. economy and investors expanded, but beyond that I DARE! andyone to show me one, just one policy that Clinton enacted to help Blacks.

1. Was it withdrawing Welfare benefits from inner city Blacks with children while keeping Benefits for out of city Whites?

2. Was it signing free trade agreements that shipped non College jobs to Mexico?

3. Was it lecturing the Black community to show Whites that he was master of the Blacks?

4. Was it NEVER! standing in support of a Black appointee?

if MLK was an adulterer and LIED when caught…I would have far less respect for him….i’d appreciate all he had down…but would not respect him

@Angel_Minded – Why do you keep attacking MLK, did he do something to you?

OR, Are you being paid by the Clintons to destroy his good name?

You are a weasly of a character.

Please do every Black person a favor and stop referring to MLK.

Angel_Minded

Can you prove any of MLK’s so-called “questionable behavior?”

And to all of those that think the Clinton’s were so good to Blacks, and think that this current Administration is so terrible remember this:

Bill Clinton is the reason that Gore lost and Bush was elected in the first place

Bill squandered the last years of his Presidency wasting taxpayers money, time, and patience while trying to defend himself from impeachment. He lied under oath, to God, to his wife, and to the American people. He screwed Gore out of the presidency.

So, indirectly, Bill is to blame for the shape the country is in today.

I am so mad at that weasly Angel_Minded, quoting that known racist FBI director Hoover, when he tried to slime MLK by calling him a communist and an adulterer.

—– – ————

Hoover wanted to destroy MLK so you lied and schemed perhaps was involved in MLK death.

So, here comes Angel_Minded quoting this racist for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

who said anything about being a perfect president….its about who can do that job the best…and honestly dirty campaigning only gives off that idea that your position isn’t good enough to stand on its own, so you have to knock the opposition down to build yourself up..

_________________________________________________

Exactly! And Obama has done that. So according to your logic, what makes Obama better than Hilary?

@ Angel_Minded

^^^Please see below Ari and Gymo and Kdogg posts.. That should sum up how I feel. I’m done playing with you. Peace

Can you prove any of MLK’s so-called “questionable behavior?”

___________________________________________________

Hell YEAH!!!!

There are plenty of books written about MLK w/ substantial evidence proving everything that I said!

One book is called, ‘Martin Luther King: Man Behind the Myth,’ I forget the authors name but you can look it up on amazon.com

kdogg – what happens in his personal life has nothing to do w/ his presidency. He doesn’t owe us anything!!!! All he has to do is run the country to the best of his ability, we all fall short, nobody is perfect…not even your precious Obama.

Angel_Minded said:

“What lie are you talking about? Are you referring to when Bill denied receiving a blow job? Okay, so he lied to save face, but he doesn’t owe you nor me an explanation about what he does in his personal life. ”

——————————————————————————————————

Are you serious? You can’t be. That has to be a typo. I’m not even going to comment on this. I’ll just put it out there and let it float around on its own. Wheeeeeeeee!!!

@ Ari – well now you know about MLK’s past. Do you feel like you’re entitled to an apology? He lead you to believe that he was this great christian man w/ christian values…he betrayed you and the black community…

Now see, this is my point, when a black man is flawed it’s okay. But when it’s a white man…you hear, ‘Oh he’s a liar,’ etc., this is what I mean by biased! You can’t condemn one and not the other! Either you’re outraged by MLK AND Clinton…or neither!

Kdogg – it was in his personal life!!!! It didn’t/shouldn’t take away from what he did as a president! It didn’t/shouldn’t take away from the policies and laws that were passed, that kept our ecnomy in a great state!

show you’re true colors bill.

@ kara kor el

Cosign completely!

“Bill Clinton is the reason that Gore lost and Bush was elected in the first place

Bill squandered the last years of his Presidency wasting taxpayers money, time, and patience while trying to defend himself from impeachment. He lied under oath, to God, to his wife, and to the American people. He screwed Gore out of the presidency.

So, indirectly, Bill is to blame for the shape the country is in today.”

K-Dogg, don’t start that mess

Hoover wanted to destroy all the Black empowerment movement at that time, so he had his agents create havoc in these black organizations.

He sent letter to Coretta Scott King and to Congressmen and the President stating that MLK was a Communist and adulterer, he also stated that he was aligned to the Black Panther and wanted to start a revolution.

So that was where that lie came from, and now we have the likes of Bill and Hillary supporters spreading that lie again, it’s just sickening. that people will do anything, say anything to win.

Gore lost, because he felt he needed to distance himself from Clinton. Al Gore couldn’t even carry his home state of Tennessee. That’s like Bush not being able to carry Texas. The Florida ballot/dimpled chad/ Kathleen Harris/ Supreme Court upholding the ruling also had a little something to do with why Gore lost. So don’t you dare lay his defeat solely at the feet of Bill Clinton. Gore actually won the popular election, but Bush the electoral college. So the Florida and Supreme Courts had more of hand in deciding the election than Bill Clinton.

The greater problem is not so much what Bill does or does not say, but the fact that he is not running for office, his wife is. One can list all the things he “did” for black people, but at the end of the day, that list applies to HIS record, NOT Hillary Clinton’s. HRC is smart and a hard worker, but at the end of the day she owes her political career to the fact that she was married to the president. However one feels about Obama, he did not get to where is is today because of his spouse or family name (which, incidentally, is one of the things I admired about President Clinton).

That said, people aren’t mad at Bill Clinton for campaigning for his wife. People are mad at him because his attitude towards Barack Obama is dismissive and contemptuous, because he fudges both his own and Obama’s political records at will, and because his aggressive behavior and somewhat crazed interactions with the media remind people of everything they HATED about the Clinton years in the White House – despite the roaring economy. And guess what? Folks will be even more mad if his divisive behavior wins the nomination for Hillary, but loses the general election for the party.

Whatthehell and others are absolutely right. Bill Clinton is a former president, not a Chicago ward boss, and he needs to start acting like it. Then again, as his various marital indiscretions can attest to, he seems incapable of acting in a way that does not embarrass himself, his wife, or the country.

K-dogg read Taylor Branch’s “At Canaan’s Edge”, to learn about some of King’s vices. It’s the third book in his civil right’s trilogy on King and the Movement. The first book “Parting The Waters” won a Pulitzer. Michael Eric Dyson has given many interviews touching on King’s “borrowing” of content in his speeches. Like I said, I’m not saying that he wasn’t a great man, but I’m just saying . . .

@helltothanaw…

i was merely stating that polititians do that all the time.its something about the presidency that makes for heavy competion.for instance, when everybody was talkin about how hilary was crying to get more votes i find that to be not true.at the end of the day she still a women an women cry from time to time. it doesnt mean she did it for votes or that she isnt strong.but a really heavy campaign is probably gonna be a dirty campaign, bill clinton an the original george bush took part in the worst of em.

@ Rosie

As I’ve said before, Bill is acting ‘erratic’ as you put it b/c the media and the Obama administration is attacking his wife! What do you expect him to do? Sit back and just take it? I don’t understand what/how you people expect them to behave? Obama has been cool and collected during his entire campaign, but then again I guess it’s easy to maintain a cool head when any and everything in the media is in YOUR FAVOR! Instead of being able to talk about her plans for presidency, she has to go on all these talk shows and defend her comments. Obama never has to do this! The media coverage is so biased and inaccurate, its a dayum shame!

I have to go but let me leave this, with you:

S.C. spoke for the vast majority of Blacks 88% of Blacks voted for Obama, in order to tell Bill and Hillary – YOU’RE WRONG!!!!

73% of Whites voted against Bill and Hillary, to tell them – YOU’RE WRONG!!!

70% of Whites said Bill and Hillary are Race-Baiters.

Ralph Nader and the Green Party had more to do with Gore losing than Bill Clinton. Why aren’t you railing against them? Some real selective memories up in here. don’t wanna name any names, but you know who you are.

Gymo

Let’s see if Obama can sway 52 states w/ his charm and intellect on Feb. 5th

Of course Gore distanced himself. “It’s common knowledge” that he had to in order to have any chance. Bill Clinton himself has admitted that his scandal may have hurt Gore’s chances.

The Florida ballot/dimpled chad/ Kathleen Harris/ Supreme Court upholding the ruling…wouldn’t have come into play if Clinton’s infidelity and lies hadn’t tainted Gore’s campaign and cost him what should have been a landslide victory.

The Republican’s were able to use the infidelty, lying, and “impeachment” to rally the evangelcals to vote for Bush. They were able to paint Bush as morally superior than the Democrats, and Clinton was their biggest example of the so-called moral decline in America.

Bill Clinton lost the presidency for Al Gore.

OBAMA 4 CHANGE 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me, Bill falling asleep at the MLK ceremony is like falling asleep in church except that he was on stage in front of everyone which would be the equivalent to a visiting paster falling asleep in the pulpit. Falling asleep is bad but at the very least don’t be in front of a crowd of ppl. That just makes it disrespectful. I do think he was extremely tired so I sympathize.

@K-Dogg

that’s what I meant, not @Gore

@Angel Minded

If ANYONE thinks the media is biased against Hillary Clinton, they clearly do not read the NY Times. That said, MSNBC’s coverage of the Clintons has been exceptionally hostile. Unfortunately, Chris Matthews seems to have problems with women in general, not just HRC. On teh flip side, until recently CNN had James Carville, a paid Clinton consultant, providing campaign coverage. That does not exactly smack of “fair and balanced” reporting.

I also find it interesting that Hillary supporters weren’t screaming Obama being on the covers of Time, GQ, etc when he was running 20 points behind her a few months ago in key primary states.

I’d suggest checking out Howard Kurtz’s column in the Washington Post today about Obama’s relationship with the media. It’s not as cut and dry as a lot of people would think. Hillary actually has a substantial media team, far more so than Obama. Methinks then is might have something more to do with the message rather than the messenger…

Finally, I don’t think the attacks are comparable. Bill Clinton has tried to paint Obama as inexperienced (a legitimate attack) and as a candidate that only appeals to blacks (which is both offensive and factually incorrect). The Clintons have also trotted out “proxies” like Robert Johnson to do their dirty work for them (which is despicable and stupid, since Johnson is not exactly held in high regard by a lot of blacks).

At no point has Obama used, for example, members of NOW or NARAL to attack Hillary Clinton. He has not tried to paint her as the candidate of old white women. Instead, he differentiates himself from her using their political views and aspirations as a wedge, rather than descriptive categories one checks off on a census form. Clinton’s tactics smack of desperation, and they are ripping the Democratic party apart. If she gets the nod, and Obama supporters and Independents sit out the general election there will be nobody to blame but the Clintons.

@ kara kor el

I heart you!

Bill Clinton has tried to paint Obama as inexperienced (a legitimate attack) and as a candidate that only appeals to blacks (which is both offensive and factually incorrect). The Clintons have also trotted out “proxies” like Robert Johnson to do their dirty work for them (which is despicable and stupid, since Johnson is not exactly held in high regard by a lot of blacks).

___________________________________________________

I’d like to see proof of when Bill said that Obama only appeals to the blacks.

@angel_minded

I agree that no presidency is perfect. Again, I thought bill was cool and even through the whole Lewinsky thing, I thought he was being railroaded. Plus jobs were plentiful and you could quit after 6 months and get another highter paying job (at least in computer software sector). As for experience, I can see your point but what really prepares someone for being the President? I mean we had a actor for president onetime. Current pres. bush was gov of Texas, but I wouldn’t exactly give him A..hell even a C if I had to grade him. I think Obama’s legislative inexperience is not necessarily a negative. He doesn’t have all that Washington muck on him. I think his healthcare plan is pretty solid, I like his tax cut for the middle class. Heck as a mama, his zero to 5 program could improve early childhood education (daycares, preschool). I live in SC, we have less than 10 nationally acredited daycare/early childhood education centers!!!!!! How ridiculous is that! My daughter 20 months old and belive me I was tramautized when I had to look for a good and AFFORDABLE daycare center that wasn’t just a baby warehouse.

@kara kor el

–I never said he didn’t have any blacks in his cabinet or nominated black judicial nominees. In fact Coop mentioned it in his original post. Lani is just an example of when it gets hot, he gets amnesia or pulls a Justin Timberlake And I’m well aware of the Somalia issue. And are you saying Clinton was right to pull out of Somalia because American’s didn’t like the images they saw on CNN? What about the people of Somalia?

–As for Obama and Rwanda, I really doubt he’d let that go on for so long with so many deaths especially being part African himself.

–As for welfare reform, there is having a job and making a living wage. One of the criticisms about the welfare reform bill was that not enough money went to help training people so they could make enough money to support their familes or maybe even buy a house. You are not buying a house (not even a condo and an old one at that) making minimum wage. You can’t afford healthcare. Which I give Hillary credit for trying to get universal healthcare for all Americans in the 90s. I didn’t have a real issue with the 5-year time limit, but its one thing to get people off welfare but they should be able to make a decent living.

And why are you so angry?? There are millions of people in this country with a range of views and opinions on this race. None of us are gonna agree on everything but we could at least be civil. This is an exciting race and everyone is passionate about their candidates. Chill out…..

If the Popular Vote really meant anything, then I would care…but since It doesn’t, Why do you insist on repeating it? Gore lost key states because of Clinton. Evangelical Democrats voted Republican because of Clinton.

“Clinton’s legacy made the Democrats more competitive on economic issues–in the suburbs, for instance. California and New Jersey are suburban states that used to be reliably Republican. But they are also coastal states whose voters don’t like the ties between the GOP and the Religious Right. Clinton made it safe for tax-sensitive suburbanites to vote Democratic. He also got economic liberals such as Bill Bradley and Ralph Nader to denounce Clintonism as a sellout.

At the same time, Clinton reduced the Democrats’ appeal in culturally conservative areas of the country. Such as Tennessee and Arkansas and West Virginia, states Gore should have won. … The truth is, Gore lost because he couldn’t keep his distance from Bill Clinton.

Gore couldn’t have done much better with liberals and minorities. He carried California and Illinois by 12 percentage points, and New York by 25 percentage points. African-American turnout was up in many parts of the country (such as Florida), and the black vote went 90 percent in favor of Gore. The gender gap was bigger than it has ever been. Women preferred Gore to Bush by 11 percentage points. But men preferred Bush to Gore by 11 percentage points. That was Gore’s problem. Try as he did to keep a distance from Clinton–by naming Joe Lieberman to the ticket, for instance–he was always Clinton’s man. Voters who hated Clinton came out strongly against Gore. Consensus on policy. Divided on values. “

Rosie

Obama does attack Hilary, the only difference is that the media doesn’t show coverage of it.

You seem to be a well rounded intelligent person, which is why my point should be obvious to you!

When Hilary became emotional on live TV, someone from Obama’s campaign asked why Hilary wasn’t crying during the events of Hurrican Katrina. But you never heard coverage on that! Meanwhile, I never recall seeing Obama going down to New Orleans, and making ‘inspirational speeches,’ to help motivate and inspire them! Where was he?

In addition, I was told that Obama is on the cover of a magazine w/ a freaking Halo on his head!

I see really good points, but political agendas aside, I must say that I think many Blacks are voting for Obama as more of a referendum on the “Black Leadershhip”. The enthusiasm for Obama that I saw early on came from the black population in the Midwest. From what I saw, what fired up Blacks (myself included) was what I call the “Imus moment” when Andrew Young stated that Bill Clinton was more black than Obama because he dated more black women than Obama. Other “so-called Black leadership” chimed in talkin’ trash and Black people saw the nonsense for what it was. Here was a black man, with BTW, a black wife, who had a plan and a mission and a serious campaign. This to me was the emotional spark for the black population. I am not enthusiastic about his healthcare plan or his corporate sponsors. But if my vote will seriously weaken the “so-called Black Leadership”, Obama has my vote because the “so-called Black leadership” has really not stepped up for our people.

@ Kim

No offense, but I’m soo sick in tired of everyone saying Bush had experience! That idiot was an IDIOT even when he was the governor of Texas! LOL – those red necks weren’t voting on his policies or experience, they were voting on his strongly religious values, and that b/c he was the type of guy that they could see themselves having a beer w/.

Experience goes a long way…especially considering the fact that Obama would be responsible for 300+million Americans and there future. This isn’t a job that I would entrust on a man that makes inspirational speeches. Everything that Obama has said sounds good in theory, I just believe that he’ll have a hard time executing anything in office. I guess my greatest fear is that he’ll get elected and fck up.

@Angel_Minded

I think the post is referring to how Bill blew off Obama’s win in SC by saying “Jesse Jackson” won in ’84 and ’88. By linking Obama and Jesse insinuates that Obama can only appeal to blacks. But he forgot to mention he won in SC and John Edwards won in 2004.

@Angel minded

First, if the media didn’t cover that statement, then how would anyone know it happened? Someone must have mentioned it somewhere.

Second, like I said (and the Kurtz article points out), Hillary Clinton has a very well-developed, aggressive media team to report on EVERYTHING she does. And according to Kurtz, Hillary also talks to the press directly more often than Obama. What it seems like, perhaps, is that the HRC campaign is simply feeding the media more information, and therefore any attacks coming from them will receive more coverage.

Finally, let’s not forget, SHE HAS A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AS AN ATTACK DOG. Of COURSE the media is going to cover anything he says more than what some campaign flunky from Obama’s camp tells them. This is exactly why Rahm Emannuel keeps telling Bill to shut up.

@rosie

Define proxy, because I don’t think you would refer to Caroline Kennedy as such. Is Gloria Steinem a “proxy” because of her feminist/pro-Clinton rant that ran in the NYT a few weeks back?

I’m sure you’d be the first to criticize right wing rhetoric, when used against Obama, but you don’t hesitate to take a page out of the republican playbook when saying that Hilary’s gender is divisive. And the media has been biased against Hilary. Oh the egg that was on their faces when Hil won New Hampshire. And of course NYT would endorse Hilary, if for no other reason than she’s hello . . .the Democratic (liber bastion NYT)Senator from where? NEW YORK.

@about it

that’s deep

kara kor el said:

“They had a better get out the vote strategy in mobilizing Christian conservatives. They related to Bush because he evoked God more than Gore, suggesting that Christ was his favorite philosopher in a debate.”

——————————————————————————————————

I agree. And again, none of that would have worked if the last 2 years of the Clinton Presidency went as the previous 6 did. The conservatives were able to run on the premise that the nation was in a state of moral decline brought on by the Democrats and their leader… Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton lost the Presidency for Gore.

@about it

Agreed. It’s a new day. Times are changing and old tactics aren’t working anymore.

Where’s “lovely and amazing”? I want her to call me a plant.

@Kim

When it comes down to it in the long run SC means nothing because Dems never win head to head (Democrat vs Republican) elections in SC. In 1964, Barry Goldwater became the first Republican to win the state of South Carolina since Reconstruction. Since then, South Carolina has voted for a Republican in every presidential election from 1964 to 2004, with the exception of 1976 when Jimmy Carter, from neighboring Georgia, won the state over Gerald Ford. George W. Bush won the state in 2004 with 58% of the statewide vote over Senator John Kerry. Republicans now control the governorate, eight of nine statewide offices, both houses of legislature, both U.S. Senators, and four of six members of the U.S. House of Representatives. Knowledge of history helps people make better political choices.

“I agree. And again, none of that would have worked if the last 2 years of the Clinton Presidency went as the previous 6 did. The conservatives were able to run on the premise that the nation was in a state of moral decline brought on by the Democrats and their leader… Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton lost the Presidency for Gore.”

——————————————————————————————————

Well said.

Not only that. It went further than the past two years of his presidency. It caused the American People to question his sincerity on past allegations of infidelity.

@rosie

I’m not voting for Hilary or Obama (Go Edwards) but Angel is correct Obama does attack Hilary but when Hilary defends herself in anyway it is called racist even if it isn’t.

@Angel_Minded

I hear you. I was about to say can it get any worse, but then I decided to take that back:-). I’ll just say, either one could really mess up, but not any worse than Bush. I just hope who ever wins, they can get the rest of the world from hating us so much. You just never know, we might need something from Iran (I don’t know what exactly) or North Korea, Pakistan, France maybe. They don’t have to love us, just not want to kill us so much (especially our brothers from the middle east):-)

@rosie

Your bring up bush and religion is such bull. Bush and most Republican politician have religion because it is convenient to getting them elected.

@Coop

Well, why even vote? Lets just look at the last elections results and import that data to some database and call it a day.

And..

Do you mean Hillary’s buddy Barry Goldwater??? Knowledge of history helps people make better political choices.

@Coop

Don’t forget about the Majority Whip, the 3rd highest ranking member of congress, a Democrat and blackman, Jim Clyburn. And I’m painfully aware of SC legislative situation. PAINFULLY. I grew up in NC and although our Gov would usually be a democrat, when it came to presidental elections its was Republican all the way. I was on the fence about Obama until I checked out his policies on his campagin site. TV only gives you short blurbs. He says alot of things I agree with. Period.

@Proof

Ok, this is getting redundant.

For the last time

1)Al Gore won the Popular Election, which means that if the electoral college did not exist, he would’ve been President by popular demand. So if more people voted for Al Gore than George Bush, logic would dictate that Bill Clinton’s affair must not have hurt Gore too much. Ya’ll are getting real creative with the Clinton hatred, bringing up these flimy arguments just for the hell of it.

2)Nader and the Greens split the Dem vote in key battleground states. The irony of it, is that the Green Party didn’t get the 5% of the electorate that they were looking for to be considered legit in the next election, they only took away votes from Gore

3)Do you understand how the electoral college works? How candidates map out a battle plan of what states to target to get the number of EC delegates and votes necessary to win the Presidency? I don’t think you do, or you wouldn’t keep using this lazy logic the Bill Clinton was the sole reason for why Gore loss.

4)Were you around when the Florida vote fiasco was going on. Did you see the hoopla over disinfranchised voters, dimpled chads, and judges and lawyers that decided the election? Bill Clinton had something to do with that too, right?

5) Karl Rove is the formidable political genius of our time, and who’s team does he play for?

@kara kor el

I didn’t say that her gender was divisive. I was responding to Angel_Minded’s points about the media coverage of HRC. Her gender is an issue for Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, and for Chris Matthews, whose maturity when it comes to dealing with women – including the ones he works with at NBC – is that of a 15 year old’s.

As for proxy, I mean putting someone out there to deliberately attack the other candidate, so you don’t have to get your hands dirty. And as for the right-wing media, I don’t pay attention to anything they have to say about Obama because they have nasty things to say about all of the Democratic candidates.

The point I was trying to make about proxies, is that the Clintons using black clergy and former civil rights leaders to attack Obama would be the same thing as Obama using NOW or NARAL leadership to attack HRC. Clearly Steinem had her own opinion on the election (one that I disagree with).

What is emerging with the Caroline Kennedy endorsement, however, is far more interesting. Obama is not using proxies to attack the Clintons. He is instead compiling a list of supporters – supporters that the Clintons not only want in their corner, but one would expect to be there. Why do so many former Clinton staffers work for Obama’s campaign? Why is Ted Kennedy shedding his pledge of neutrality and publicly endorsing Obama? And most damaging for the Clintons, why are there rumors swirling that Al Gore will endore Obama? What does this say about the Clintons?

Bill may have convinced Robert Johnson and Andrew Young to sling mud at Obama – or they may have chosen to on their own terms, who knows? – but the giants of the party are lining up behind Obama, and that says something.

@coop

I have said nothing about Bush or religion in this thread. Perhaps another poster did?

Just because states have been “red” doesn’t mean they will be forever! The Old South states were solidly democrat until Civil Rights legislation was passed in – surprise! – 1964.

But today there is a new generation of voters who grew up in a different era, and are not as wedded to the same old ideas as their parents. Obama got more votes in the SC primary than McCain and Huckabee COMBINED. Much of his support came from the 30 and under crowd – i.e. post Civil Rights era folks like many of the ones on this board.

If Obama can generate this kind of turnout in states historically written off by the Democrats, then the party can increase its chances in the general election. Granted a state like SC is a bonus, but the Dems MUST win in states like OH, PA, and CO. And Southeastern/Mid-Atlantic states will be even more important if McCain gets the nod because he may lock up Western states like New Mexico that went blue in the last election. I think a lot of Dems in these states often don’t vote because they see it as pointless, but if they can be mobilized it not only will help in the fall, but will help grow he base of the party in general.

i just find it funny that BILL is NOT running for president yet he’s getting all the publicity

bill is NOT running president yet his term is being brought up…things he’s done are being brought up..as if he’s running for a damn re-election

and angel i AM outraged that someone I respected and idolized could be such a horrible family man and man….as I was outraged that clinton whom i had respected would be such a horrible family man and man

but why MLK is in this discussion makes NO sense, why BILL’s term as president is in this discussion makes NO sense

@kara kor el

In 1992 and 1996 Clinton won 32 and 31 states to Bush Sr. and Dole’s 18 and 19 respectively. In 2000, Bush carried 30 states to Gores 20.

Clinton recieved more than double the electoral votes than his competition. Bush and Gore were neck and neck. It should have never come down to Floridas electoral votes. How did the Democratic Party go from landslide victories to a slim,even if questionable, defeat? One answer…Bill Clinton.

You can keep harping about popular vote and dimpled chads all you want, but the fact remains that it should not have come down Florida. Thats like a heavily favored powerhouse basketball team, blaming their loss to a winless, undermanned team, on a last second missed free-throw. What happened during the rest of the game? It shouldn;t have come down to the last shot. Florida was that free-throw. The Democratic Party was the home team. The election was lost way before the florida fiasco. It was lost when Bill Clinton got caught cheating and lying two years earlier.

@ What the hell

I agree with you 100%.

A few elders I have spoken to are disappointed in Bill. These are die hards some who waited up to six hours to have their Clinton book signed. A generation who adored and believed in the Clintons have been disappointed by their tactics. Bill Clinton is an elder statesman not a presidential candidate. This is Hillary’s race. I’m for Obama but I think Bill should give his wife a chance to shine.

OBAMA 2008!

@Kim

Let’s put it this way. I’m no more angry than you are informed.

________________________________________________

“–I never said he didn’t have any blacks in his cabinet or nominated black judicial nominees. In fact Coop mentioned it in his original post. Lani is just an example of when it gets hot, he gets amnesia or pulls a Justin Timberlake And I’m well aware of the Somalia issue. And are you saying Clinton was right to pull out of Somalia because American’s didn’t like the images they saw on CNN? What about the people of Somalia?

–As for Obama and Rwanda, I really doubt he’d let that go on for so long with so many deaths especially being part African himself.”

@Kim

You seem very optimistic and idealistic, and I guess that’s a good thing, but everything from wars to elections are fought in the arena of public opinion. So when the images of the dead soldiers were shown being dragged through the streets for a peace keeping mission in 93′, not an actual war, it left a bad taste in the mouths of the American public. So, when the Rwanda genocide was occuring, the American public wasn’t eager to march back into a country with no National interest to the US on another humanitarian mission where US soldiers lives would be at risk. The killers who planned the genocide knew this, and purposely killed the soldiers from the Belgian peace keeping force and dragged them through the streets “Somali Style” in front of cameras to show to the Western world, especially the US, should they get any ideas about coming there to stop them. So no, I don’t think that Obama would have done things differently. Can you produce any proof to suggest otherwise? I mean, for real. Does Obama walk on water too, change the water into wine, multiply the fishes and the loaves . . .

As for Obama caring simply because he’s African. . . my pops is Liberian. He really doesn’t care about Rwandans. He doesn’t care about Kenyans. He doesn’t care about South Africans. He cares about his countrymen and his kin.

I’m not going into welfare reform. someone else argue pro-Clinton welfare reform. I’ve said enough on your post.

I hope when Obama becomes president he recognizes fear and conditioning for what it is and formally forgives and honors these elders who have attacked him.

I feel for our elders, they worked hard and risked their lives so we could excercise the most basic of freedoms so easily taken for granted today.

I don’t agree with our elders tactics but they just want to be recognized. I don’t think one has to kiss Jesse Jackson’s and Al Sharpton’s ring to follow political aspirations. But I think perhaps they feel slighted and overlooked.

We don’t have to agree with them but to dismiss them and their contributions is wrong on another level as well.

I hope we can reach a place where Obama’s run for the presidency is viewed as an extention of their tremendous work and not as a competitor or disqualifier.

Maybe I’m idealistic, but I hope these men (Obama and our elders) can join hands one day. For a conflict unresolved may very well be a conflict revisted.

I pray for peace between among our fathers and sons.

OBAMA 2008!

YES HE CAN!

BECAUSE THEY DID!

OBAMA 2008!

@K-dogg

The Rove political machine was so gangsta that it convinced the majority of the American people to re-elect the same dude that got them into an unpopular war. So why discount the Bush campaign’s prowess in 00′ just for the sake of blaming Gore’s loss solely on Bill Clinton?

Some one mentioned Marxists for Obama.

This may just be a gossip site but its not. To even go there and have the M word in the mix means there’s some serious movement for change happening here.

So much is owed to Marxism. Civil rights, Obama, Ron Paul, Hillary.

But the M word (Marxism) is even more scary than the B (Black) word so it will never be credited for its influence, even as people benefit from its principle.

Everything kinda comes down to perception and strategy.

OBAMA 2008!

http://WWW.VAGABONDVOYAGES.COM

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@Kdogg

I’m not saying people shouldn’t vote. I’m to make that people understand a presidential election is about electoral votes and not popularity.

spec·u·late -(v) to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence

Bill Clinton cost Al Gore the election

@ Coop

That’s cool. I agree with that statement. now explain that to kara kor el.

@K-dogg

The Rove political machine was so gangsta that it convinced the majority of the American people to re-elect the same dude that got them into an unpopular war. So why discount the Bush campaign’s prowess in 00′ just for the sake of blaming Gore’s loss solely on Bill Clinton?

——————————————————————————————————

I’m not discounting the strategy of the Bush Campaign. I’m exposing what propelled it in 2000. Clinton’s infidelty/impeachment was the Achilles Heel of the Democratic Party. The were able to make the the 2000 race into a contest between the moral and the immoral. Without Clinton’s scandal, I don’t think their strategy would have worked.

@Kdogg

And I listen to talk radio host Stephanie Miller who is the daughter of former U.S. Representative William E. Miller, who was Barry Goldwater’s running mate in the 1964 presidential election. She now a card carrying liberal. )

@K-Dogg

Explain nothing to me. It’s the two of you with the simple logic. It’s not mere speculation, when most of Perot’s voters were registered republicans before they voted for Perot. H. Ross Perot appealed to Republicans who may not have wanted to vote for Bush, but sure as hell didn’t want to vote for Clinton because the country was slowly creeping out of recession and Perot was a billionaire oil tycoon that advocated economic reforms. Alright then, alright. By your logic, those Nader’s voters would have been more likely to vote for for Bush, then, and you know that’s not true.

@lovely and amazing

Will you lighten up! I wrote a whole diatribe about how I was a Supergirl’s house plant from Argo that Kal-el sent to the set of Little Shop of Horrors. I don’t think anyone took my “Commies for Obama” quip seriously!

I’ll post it again.

_________________________________________________

@lovely and amazing

Ok, I didn’t want to have to do this, but you leave me no choice. Nah-nah’s not the plant. It’s me. I’m a rare flora that was salvaged during Kal-El, the last son of Krypton’s rescue mission to Argo, my home planet. I was originally grown on Krpton, in the House of Jar-El, and was brought to Argo to be presented to Zor-El’s (Jar-El’s brother ) young daughter (Kara Zor-El) as a birthday present. I flourished on Argo, under Kara’s care, before Krypton and Argo’s tragic demise. Once Kal rescued Kara, she asked that he teleport me, her favorite plant, back to his fortress of solitude, but he erred in his coordinates, sending me not to the fortress, but instead to a flower shop on Skid Row, where I was purchased by an earth man named Seymour Krelborn . Seymour gave me an Earth name “Audrey 2” (I go by my Argoan name Kara kor el on this site). Seymour learned the hard way what I ate, and the taste I acquired for hysterical zealots who try to discredit people who argue better than do by calling them “plants” like it’s a McCarthy era witch hunt. Yeah, I love to munch on big, juicy propagandists with wild, unsubstantiated, conspiracy theories (Clinton murders). Yeah, you know, I like those juicy, succulent blowhards, who aren’t too swift cognitively, but still like to tout their marital status and religion (“As a married Christian mother, I find your comments particularly disturbing. God Bless You and may He lead you to a better moral and character”) as some type of superior platform (Umm, yum.) You’re looking mighty tasty right now, all lovely and amazing. I’ll tell you the same thing I told Seymour . . . FEED ME.

Maoist Marxist-Leninists for Obama in 08

Serve the People (with basil and oregano)

I feel sorry for you people that are stuck on the wrong side of history. The fact of the matter is… the policy diferences between Clinton and Obama is negligible. If you don’t believe me…

All you Clinton supporters – name one position that Obama has taken that you disagree with?

Now watch them say… ‘he never takes a position or we don’t know!’

But the truth of the matter is… they haven’t taken the time to actually listen to his speeches. All of his positions are in his speeches, on his website and in his books.

I can name several policy differences that I have with Sen. Clinton.

1. She voted to authorize the war (when it was popular)

2. She stood by that vote and vigorously defended it until Nov 2005. (once public support for the war had dropped)

3. Her Mortgage bailout plan is going to make it harder to get credit and will increase interest rates for everyone.

4. Her vote to name Iran a terrorist state was a gift to the Bush Administration

5. Her plan to force people to get medical insurance doesn’t explain how she will make sure it’s affordable!

Now… Clintonistas, tell me what your policy issues with my guy are?

YES WE CAN!!!!!

hope when Obama becomes president he recognizes fear and conditioning for what it is and formally forgives and honors these elders who have attacked him.

I feel for our elders, they worked hard and risked their lives so we could excercise the most basic of freedoms so easily taken for granted today.

I don’t agree with our elders tactics but they just want to be recognized. I don’t think one has to kiss Jesse Jackson’s and Al Sharpton’s ring to follow political aspirations. But I think perhaps they feel slighted and overlooked.

We don’t have to agree with them but to dismiss them and their contributions is wrong on another level as well.

I hope we can reach a place where Obama’s run for the presidency is viewed as an extention of their tremendous work and not as a competitor or disqualifier.

Maybe I’m idealistic, but I hope these men (Obama and our elders) can join hands one day. For a conflict unresolved may very well be a conflict revisted.

I pray for peace between among our fathers and sons.

OBAMA 2008!

^^^I’m with you sista. Unfortunately, they are finding themselves on the wrong side of history. Our time is now, this country needs us right now!

Obama ’08

Again I say there is no way to know who Nader’s supporters would have voted for, if they would’ve even voted at all

You can only speculate that they would’ve voted for Gore.

Why didn’t they vote for Gore to begin with?

For you to claim to “know for a fact” that the people who voted for Perot or Nader would’ve voted for the eventual losing candidate instead, puts you up there with “Call me now!” Miss Cleo.

Even if you are right, that still doesn’t explain why Gore wasn’t their first choice.

It also doesn’t explain why Nader’s bid didn’t hurt Clinton in 1996.

Face it.

Clinton cost Gore the election.

A President Like My Father

By CAROLINE KENNEDY

OVER the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama.

My reasons are patriotic, political and personal, and the three are intertwined. All my life, people have told me that my father changed their lives, that they got involved in public service or politics because he asked them to. And the generation he inspired has passed that spirit on to its children. I meet young people who were born long after John F. Kennedy was president, yet who ask me how to live out his ideals.

Sometimes it takes a while to recognize that someone has a special ability to get us to believe in ourselves, to tie that belief to our highest ideals and imagine that together we can do great things. In those rare moments, when such a person comes along, we need to put aside our plans and reach for what we know is possible.

We have that kind of opportunity with Senator Obama. It isn’t that the other candidates are not experienced or knowledgeable. But this year, that may not be enough. We need a change in the leadership of this country — just as we did in 1960.

Most of us would prefer to base our voting decision on policy differences. However, the candidates’ goals are similar. They have all laid out detailed plans on everything from strengthening our middle class to investing in early childhood education. So qualities of leadership, character and judgment play a larger role than usual.

Senator Obama has demonstrated these qualities throughout his more than two decades of public service, not just in the United States Senate but in Illinois, where he helped turn around struggling communities, taught constitutional law and was an elected state official for eight years. And Senator Obama is showing the same qualities today. He has built a movement that is changing the face of politics in this country, and he has demonstrated a special gift for inspiring young people — known for a willingness to volunteer, but an aversion to politics — to become engaged in the political process.

I have spent the past five years working in the New York City public schools and have three teenage children of my own. There is a generation coming of age that is hopeful, hard-working, innovative and imaginative. But too many of them are also hopeless, defeated and disengaged. As parents, we have a responsibility to help our children to believe in themselves and in their power to shape their future. Senator Obama is inspiring my children, my parents’ grandchildren, with that sense of possibility.

Senator Obama is running a dignified and honest campaign. He has spoken eloquently about the role of faith in his life, and opened a window into his character in two compelling books. And when it comes to judgment, Barack Obama made the right call on the most important issue of our time by opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning.

I want a president who understands that his responsibility is to articulate a vision and encourage others to achieve it; who holds himself, and those around him, to the highest ethical standards; who appeals to the hopes of those who still believe in the American Dream, and those around the world who still believe in the American ideal; and who can lift our spirits, and make us believe again that our country needs every one of us to get involved.

I have never had a president who inspired me the way people tell me that my father inspired them. But for the first time, I believe I have found the man who could be that president — not just for me, but for a new generation of Americans.

Caroline Kennedy is the author of “A Patriot’s Handbook: Songs, Poems, Stories and Speeches Celebrating the Land We Love.”

LMAO! at his ass looking like me at work with a hang over lol

@K-dogg

Well then you can only SPECULATE that Clinton was the sole reason why Gore lost. Of course I’ve given many more reasons to disprove your speculation than you’ve done mine.

SMH @ kara kor el & K-Dogg

I asked you guys a direct question about Clinton vs. Obama… and you’re both still content to keep arguing about the 2000 election. LOL

You DO realize its ’08 now!

Repost:

All you Clinton supporters – name one position that Obama has taken that you disagree with?

Now watch them say… ‘he never takes a position or we don’t know!’

But the truth of the matter is… they haven’t taken the time to actually listen to his speeches. All of his positions are in his speeches, on his website and in his books.

I can name several policy differences that I have with Sen. Clinton.

1. She voted to authorize the war (when it was popular)

2. She stood by that vote and vigorously defended it until Nov 2005. (once public support for the war had dropped)

3. Her Mortgage bailout plan is going to make it harder to get credit and will increase interest rates for everyone.

4. Her vote to name Iran a terrorist state was a gift to the Bush Administration

5. Her plan to force people to get medical insurance doesn’t explain how she will make sure it’s affordable!

Now… Clintonistas, tell me what your policy issues with my guy are?

YES WE CAN!!!!!

Don’t be fooled people!

Fool Me Thrice

It should be no surprise that the Clintons are playing the race card.

By Christopher Hitchens

Posted Monday, Jan. 28, 2008, at 11:59 AM ET

Bill Clinton. Click image to expand.Bill Clinton campaigns for his wife in South Carolina

How can one equal Bill Clinton for thuggery and opportunism when it comes to the so-called “race card”? And where does one even start with the breathtaking nastiness of his own conduct, and that of his supporters, in the last week? Barack Obama carries South Carolina having made no sectarian appeal to any specific kind of voter, and the best Clinton can say is that this is no better than Jesse Jackson managed to do. Really? Did Jackson come south having already got himself elected the senator from Illinois? And, come to think of it, was Jackson so much to be despised and sneered at when he was needed as Clinton’s “confessor,” along with Billy Graham, during the squalor of impeachment?

This calculated willingness to shop on both sides of the street of racial politics was actually analyzed quite shrewdly by Dick Morris, the former consigliere of the gruesome twosome, in conversation with Sean Hannity last week. The Clintons, he thought, would be quite happy to lose big to the “black vote” in South Carolina. It would enable them to signal that they were the ones to stem the flow of the color tide. Morris’ host protested that this seemed a touch cynical. Morris jovially assured him that he knew the people he was talking about.

As indeed he did. It was Hillary Clinton who insisted on recalling Morris to the embattled White House, notwithstanding his various disgraces and notwithstanding the fact that he had been the adviser and strategist for Jesse Helms of North Carolina. Why am I saying “notwithstanding”? It was because he had performed so well for Helms, including helping him with the famous “white hands” ad that showed a white man crumpling up a letter that told him of preference for “minorities” in hiring, that Morris was thought of by the then-first lady as such a guru.

I never quite understand how the Clintons’ initial exploitation of racism was overlooked the first time around and has been airbrushed from the record since. After falling behind in the New Hampshire primary in 1992, and after being caught lying about the affair with Gennifer Flowers to which he later confessed under oath, Clinton left the campaign trail and flew home to Arkansas to give the maximum publicity to his decision to sign a death warrant for Ricky Ray Rector. Rector was a black inmate on death row who had shot himself in the head after committing a double murder and, instead of dying as a result, had achieved the same effect as a lobotomy would have done. He never understood the charge against him or the sentence. After being served his last meal, he left the pecan pie on the side of the tray, as he told the guards who came to take him to the execution chamber, “for later.” Several police and prison-officer witnesses expressed extreme queasiness at this execution of a gravely impaired man, and the prison chaplain, Dennis Pigman, later resigned from the prison service. The whole dismal and cruel and pathetic story was told by Marshall Frady in a long essay in The New Yorker in 1993 and is also recounted in a chapter titled “Chameleon in Black and White” by your humble servant in his book No One Left To Lie To. For now, I just ask you to imagine what would have been said if a Republican governor, falling in the polls, had gone out of his way to execute a mentally incompetent African-American prisoner.

Or leaf back, if you will, to the New York Times of March 23, 1992, and the jolly headline, “Club Where Clinton Has Golfed Retains Ways of Old South.” Yes indeedy, the Country Club of Little Rock had 500 members, all of them white, and the aspirant candidate had himself photographed there more than once until Jerry Brown made an issue of it. It was then announced by Clinton’s people that “the staff and facilities” at the club were “integrated”—a pretty way of stating that the toilets were cleaned by black Arkansans. Yet all this was forgiven by credulous liberals who were sure that they had discovered a New Democrat who was a Southerner to boot.

Many of these same people do not like it now that they see similar two-faced tactics being employed against “one of their own.” Well, tough. And many of the most prominent and eloquent black columnists—Bob Herbert, Colbert King, Eugene Robinson—are also acting shocked. It’s a bit late. I have to say that Bob Herbert shocked even me by quoting Andrew Young, who said that his pal Clinton was “every bit as black as Barack” because he’d screwed more black chicks. How is Hillary Clinton, or Chelsea Clinton, supposed to feel on hearing that little endorsement? One gets the impression, though, at least from the wife, that anything is OK as long as it works, or even has a chance of working. When Toni Morrison described Clinton as “black” on the basis of his promiscuity and dysfunction and uncertainty about his parentage, she did more than cater to the white racist impression of the African-American male. She tapped into the sort of self-hatred that is evidently more common than we might choose to think. Say what you will about Sen. Obama (and I say that he’s got much more charisma than guts), he is miles above this sort of squalor and has decent manners. Say what you will about the Clintons, you cannot acquit them of having played the race card several times in both directions and of having done so in the most vulgar and unscrupulous fashion. Anyone who thinks that this equals “change” is a fool, and an easily fooled fool at that.

http://www.slate.com

@Lou_Brock

There is very little difference in the views of the top 3 Dems

Go Edwards.

@diva dee

Cut the foolishness.

@ rosie, you wrote, “At no point has Obama used, for example, members of NOW or NARAL to attack Hillary Clinton.”

Speaking of NOW… has it been determined whether or not the New York State NOW blog/press release from Marcia Pappas regarding Obama and Ted Kennedy (and earlier, Obama and Edwards) is true or a hoax?

@ lovely and amazing, i wondered about that, myself. i never actually went there…. I saw your post, and I’ve gone there.

they’re not endorsing anyone at lossip. they’re not even referring to america ferrara’s endorsement of hillary clinton when making an article about ferrara. they have no tags for politics or any of the candidates.

it’s like politics doesn’t exist, at lossip. i don’t know what that means. cuban bloggist perez hilton used to back Obama before he jumped hard on the hillary clinton bandwagon. even dlisted jumps into politics here and there.

but Lossip is silent. again, i don’t know what that means.

SMH @ kara kor el & K-Dogg

I asked you guys a direct question about Clinton vs. Obama… and you’re both still content to keep arguing about the 2000 election. LOL

You DO realize its ‘08 now!

——————————————————————————————————

@Lou_Brock

Shake Your head until it falls off.

How can you say that you asked me a direct question if you didnt name me in any post. Furthermore, If you are accusing me a Clinton supporter, you are sadly mistaken. Re-read my posts. No one on this site , or any other, has ever confused my positions as being pro-Clinton.

@K-dogg

Well then you can only SPECULATE that Clinton was the sole reason why Gore lost. Of course I’ve given many more reasons to disprove your speculation than you’ve done mine.

——————————————————————————————————

OH Really! I guess you don’t suffer from a lack of self-esteem…or maybe its just Foolish Optimism.

My argument was based on facts Yours was based on speculation. Even your “facts” supported my position.

we’ve gotten into a situation where if you try to be fair to the Clintons, if you try to be objective, if you try to say, “Well, where’s the evidence of racism in the Clinton campaign?” you’re accused of being a naïve shill for the Clintons. I mean, I think if somebody came out today and said that Bill Clinton — if the town drunk in Columbia [South Carolina] came out and said, “Bill Clinton last night was poisoning the drinking water in Obama precincts,” the media would say, “Ah, there goes Clinton again. You can’t trust him.”

oh yeah, and Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida in 00′ wasn’t he? add that to the list of reasons why Clinton cost Gore the campaign.

@Coop

I’m sorry, I just can’t buy all the whining about the media and the Clintons. Bill and Hillary have been working the national media now for SIXTEEN years. They do not say anything in front of a TV camera without knowing exactly how it will be interpreted, both tbe the media and the public at large.

Of course Bill is not going to say “don’t vote for Obama because he’s black and he can’t win.” He understands how the coded language of race works in this country. And I personally don’t think the Clintons are racist. I think they will say anything to get Hillary elected president, even if it means race-baiting, or turnign their backs on their so-called black allies (how do you think Jesse Jackson felt by Bill’s comments basically saying SC was so unimportant and so black a state that even Jesse Jackson could win there?). And although throwing your long-term supporters under the bus for your own personal political gain may not be racism, it is distasteful none the less. Therefore I, and I suspect a lot of other democrats who are sick of the Clintons, will NOT be voting for Hillary in the primaries or in the general election. EVER.

@Nita

??? I’m not sure what you’re talking about. What memo?

Didn’t Pappas campaign in Iowa for Hillary?

“I’m sorry, I just can’t buy all the whining about the media and the Clintons. Bill and Hillary have been working the national media now for SIXTEEN years. They do not say anything in front of a TV camera without knowing exactly how it will be interpreted, both tbe the media and the public at large. ”

@Rosie

well you should, because Obama isn’t being properly vetted. The press has definitely skewered more negative towards her than he.

________________________________________________

(how do you think Jesse Jackson felt by Bill’s comments basically saying SC was so unimportant and so black a state that even Jesse Jackson could win there?).

@ Rosie

When did he say this, exactly? People said the same about Iowa being a midwest blip. And in the long run Iowa may not turn out to be important either. Clinton didn’t win the Iowa primary. He won New Hampshire as I think McCain did in 00′, if so, it really wasn’t all that surprising that Hilary and John McCain won their respective primaries in that state after all.

Bill Clinton didn’t win Iowa

@Coop

Your argument contains traces of the Association Fallacy. One can’t argue that Senator Clinton would be a good president simply because her husband was. Senator Clinton’s only role in the administration was her work on health care–and didn’t she make a mess out of that?

For more information on the Association Fallacy, google it or read this:

An association fallacy is an inductive formal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.

@Angel-Minded

Obama actually said very little about Clinton’s remarks. Clinton decided to overestimate LBJ’s role in the Civil Rights Movement, and of course, she received fall out from her words, from people who fought in the Movement.

Let’s not forget that LBJ is the same person who said the following of Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall: “Son, when I appoint a nigger to the court, I want everyone to know he’s a nigger.”

LBJ’s “role” in the Civil Rights Movement resulted only because he wanted to stay relevant. Clinton failed to understand this concept.

@Lou_Brock

I agree with you, there isn’t a huge difference between Clinton and Obama. Certainly not enough to justify ripping one apart to back the other.

America might be more ready for a good black man then a good woman no matter what color she is.

I’m on the fence with the three dems. But I would like to know, if those of you who are so passionate about one over the other, what will you do if your choice looses? Will you not vote for President? Worse, will you vote republican? Since they are so similar, I really don’t understand the bashing. I get a preferrence, but some of the people here are bashing them.

NARAL and NOW are racist establishments and Hillary cronies. If they are accused of saying something racist, ignorant, demeaning, rude, or resentful toward Obama and Ted Kennedy then they most likely did.

Those white girls don’t give a darn about anyone but their own pants. Michelle Obama as America’s first African-American First Lady will have more of a positive (“feminist”) impact on black wonmen and girls than the feminist movement ever did or cared to.

Carolyn Kennedy, the archtype of the upper class elite feminist sensibility endorsed Obama, while Gloria Steinem was in NH lying and misleading (white) women with anti-Obama propaganda.

Darn right it’s time for new day!

OBAMA 2008!!

YES HE CAN!!

OBAMA 2008!!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Clinton

Obama

Clinton

Obama

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Where do these two, who have very similiar voting records, find so much room to fight?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Pardon me, Caroline Kennedy

BUSH 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uncle Cracker, get lost.

One more thing–

It’s interesting to me that so many of Clinton’s former advisors and appointees are supporting Obama!

“NARAL and NOW are racist establishments and Hillary cronies. If they are accused of saying something racist, ignorant, demeaning, rude, or resentful toward Obama and Ted Kennedy then they most likely did.”

@lovely and amazing

Yeah, NOW is so racist that they endorsed Carol Mosely Braun in 04′. Can you at least try not to be so transparent? Real Talk. You’re becoming a caricature. Anyone who says anything that you don’t want to hear is damned according to you. If Caroline Kennedy had endorsed Hilary, you would be slinging mudd at her this very minute. Let’s not forget that while NYT ran Kennedy’s op-ed, they endorsed Hilary. Gloria Steinam is no more racist than she is unapologetically feminist,and while I didn’t agree with how she didn’t quite consider black women who are caught in the middle of this intersectional dilema, I agreed with a lot of the points she made in her NYT op-ed.

@Lingartu

That’s a really good question, who would I vote for if not the person I’m leaning towards, which for now is Hilary? I’m just not brave enough to answer it now.

@nahnah

You crazy. you see how I had reveal my secret idendity, right?

I agree we need a rainbow of elevation. But feminists have been elitist, self centered and self serving with respect to serving white women. The disparity in female education and economic equality speaks volumes. I think Michelle Obama a better candidate to unify women.

If Caroline Kennedy had endorsed Hillary, which I expected, I would respect her still for she does amazing work and no one can dispute that she has survived and overcome tremendous loss with great dignity. She is admirable regardless of whom she endorses.

I wonder if NOW and NARAL will ever black presidents?

Just a thought.

sorry typo, “will ever have black presidents?”

Maybe NOW and NARAL will elect black presidents 50 years after Obama is elected to make a point. LOL.

Anyone else watching this smug bastard? Man, I can’t stand this guy. He scares the hell out of me.

@kara kor el

I can’t believe that you are still trying to turn your speculation into fact. Let me break it down for you Barney style.

I am arguing that Clinton’s lying/cheating/impeachment cost Gore the 2000 election.

You are arguing that the Florida chad issue, Ralph Nader, and Karl Rove are the reason for Gore’s defeat.

Lets take a closer look at your “points.”

kara kor el: “Gore lost due to the Florida “hanging Chad”/disenfranchisement…”

Kdogg: “Maybe or maybe not. We will never know. There wasn’t a recount. It never should have come down to one state and 24 electral votes in the first place. In 1992 and 1996 Clinton won 32 and 31 states to Bush Sr. and Dole’s 18 and 19 respectively. In 2000, Bush carried 30 states to Gores 20.

You can keep harping about popular vote and dimpled chads all you want, but the fact remains that it should not have come down Florida. Thats like a heavily favored powerhouse basketball team, blaming their loss to a winless, undermanned team, on a last second missed free-throw. What happened during the rest of the game? It shouldn’t have come down to the last shot. Florida was that free-throw. The Democratic Party was the home team. The election was lost way before the florida fiasco. It was lost when Bill Clinton got caught cheating and lying two years earlier.

kara kor el: “Ralph nader split the vote”

Kdogg: “There is no way of knowing if Bush Sr. would have received Perot’s votes or if Gore would have received Naders. All you can do is speculate at best. I don’t see how you expect this to bolster your argument. For all we know, Nader’s supporters were people that don’t normally vote and may have stayed home if he wasn’t on the ticket. Nader may have taken votes from Bush. Who really knows? Not only that, Buchanan possibly hurt Bush, or Gore, as well since he also was on the ticket.

Clinton cost Gore the election.”

kara kor el: “Karl Roves campaign prowess was the cause of Gore’s loss”

Kdogg: “I’m not discounting the strategy of the Bush Campaign. I’m exposing what propelled it in 2000. Clinton’s infidelty/impeachment was the Achilles Heel of the Democratic Party. The were able to make the the 2000 race into a contest between the moral and the immoral. Without Clinton’s scandal, I don’t think their strategy would have worked. The Republican’s were able to use the infidelty, lying, and “impeachment” to rally the evangelcals to vote for Bush. They were able to paint Bush as morally superior than the Democrats, and Clinton was their biggest example of the so-called moral decline in America. Clinton reduced the Democrats’ appeal in culturally conservative areas of the country. Such as Tennessee and Arkansas and West Virginia, states Gore should have won. … The truth is, Gore lost because he couldn’t keep his distance from Bill Clinton.”

I support Barack Obama 100%

BUSH HAS NEVER BEEN ELECTED!!!!!!!!!!

BUSH HAS BEEN ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING THE WHITE HOUSE FOR NEARLY 8 YEARS!!!!

BUSH IS NOT A LEGAL PRESIDENT!!!!!!

GORE WON IN 2000, JUST LIKE KERRY WON IN 2004!!!

@ Nita and others

If NOW was ever not full of crap, they are showing their asses now. Pappas’ statement is unbelievable.

I apologize for pasting an article here, but this needs to be read to be believed.

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NOW-NY slams Kennedy

“The ultimate betrayal” says women’s group

By JAY JOCHNOWITZ, State editor

Click byline for more stories by writer.

Last updated: 5:21 p.m., Monday, January 28, 2008

The National Organization for Women’s New York chapter today issued a scathing response to Sen. Ted Kennedys endorsement of Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in the Democratic presidential primary, calling it a “betrayal” of women.

Marcia Pappas, NOW-NY’s president, wrote in a news release that on a host of issues and positions, “Women have forgiven Kennedy, stuck up for him, stood by him,” but “We are repaid with his abandonment. He’s picked the new guy over us. He’s joined the list of progressive white men who can’t or won’t handle the prospect of a woman president who is Hillary Clinton.”

Pappas blasted several other people and Democratic groups, including national Democratic Chairman Howard Dean, Progressive Democrats of America, democrats.com, and “Kucinich lovers and all the other groups that take women’s money, say they’ll do feminist and womens rights issues one of these days, and conveniently forget to mention women and children when they talk about poverty or human needs or America’s future or whatever.”

In an interview, Pappas said she’s gotten mixed reactions to the statement, with some telling her it was “cathartic” to others saying, “How dare you, I’m quitting NOW.”

(Editor’s note: The full statement can be read on our Capitol Confidential blog, however, due to high volume the site may be unavailable).

Bill Clinton can do no wrong for black people? Right? It only takes an intelligent, strong black candidate as Obama to bring out his true colors. I fail to see the fascination with Bill Clinton. So what if he extended welfare so that blacks would continue to depend on the government and live in deplorable conditions. So what if his wife dismantled health care with her terrible mishandling. It’s just not even worth my time to discuss these people. I like Obama, but he is no different from any other politician, he will just be a puppet, like the others;but i do hope he is chosen, maybe black men will have a positive role model to look up to now, that’s the bottom line. I am also too lazy to construct a good reply.

I am completely convinced that this election is about race, especially seeing what happened in South Carolina. —————————————————————————————————————————————–

What about Iowa. Obamas support came from majority whites. Bill Clinton enjoyed a majority of the “black vote in SC when he ran.” I bet you didnt say it was about race then. The only reason you think its about race now is because an actual black man is running.

Micheles’ comments came almost a year ago.

Micheles’ comments were also based on facts. Billarys attack comments have been consisitent and recent. Billarys comments have also distorted the truth and have been aimed at polarizing Obama.

Heed your own advice. You need to wake up and get smart.

@K-dogg

why don’t you want to acknowledge that Clinton had favorable approval ratings during the Gore campaign and after he left the white house? You know why? because it’s convenient for you to just use Bill Clinton as a scapegoat instead of looking more closely at other compounding variables that contributed to his demise. The fact that Bush carried 30- Gores 20 States means little when Gore not only won the popular vote and only lost by four or five electoral college votes. If Gore had won Florida than Bush would have lost the election having won 29 states to Gore’s 21. You say that it shouldn’t have come down to Florida, but there were other battleground states that were split by third party votes. So it’s not a matter or who won more states than the other.

Your Bill Clinton culprit tunnel vision is keeping you from placing blame on the man who was running the campaign himself, Al Gore. And yes, a third party candidate can gain enough traction to split a vote? Nader voters leaned heavily liberal or independent, something that Gore wasn’t. Many of which were looking for an alternative to the two party system and voted for Nader. Nader took nearly 100K votes in Florida which would have put Gore up and over the top. Nader split the vote in battleground states that made a difference when all was said and done. Those people voting for Ralph weren’t voting for him because of Bill’s affair.

To you, if Monica-gate hadn’t happened, then Gore would have won, and it’s just not that simple. The country was coming out of recession at the end of Bush senior’s term, when the Clintons came into power, and even without any scandalous affairs and a growing economy, the republicans still managed to take over the House and Senate in 1994. Was that Bill’s fault too? What about Gore’s choice of Liberman as a running mate? You don’t think that didn’t make people in “red states” raise eyebrows? Of course it didn’t. Cause it was all Bill’s fault!

@K-dogg

And it may not come down to race, patriarchy may trump race. I sincerely doubt that a woman with Obama’s limited National electoral background would be where he is today.

@ Rosie

______________________________________

NOW Memo Translation:

Dear Ted Kennedy,

White women first.

Betrayed,

NOWW

@lovely and amazing

LOL!!!! At least white feminists have been nothing else but consistent for the last 100+ years…

Too bad those approval ratings didn’t translate into votes for Gore…the then current vice-President. Approval ratings aren’t exact science and vary from poll to poll.

How many times must I remind you that the popular vote means nothing compared to the elecoral votes. Gore only won the popular vote by .5% . Not only that, even if he got Naders votes, he would have only gained 2.7% more votes. Not exactly the landslide that they were looking for since the current administration had been so popular.

I pointed out how many states were carried to show the glaring differences between the elections. I also pointed out how Clinton had more than double the electoral votes as his competition. Gore and Bush were neck and neck. It shouldn’t have been close. Even if Gore had won Florida and subsequently the election, the Dems would have been wondering why it was so close.

Gore didn’t even win his home state…Tennessee, a state the Clinton won the previous election.

Gore lost the entire Bible belt. Wonder why?

A successful administation and the sitting VP should not have lost the election. Even Clinton himself has admitted that he may have hurt Gores candidacy. Why is it so hard for you to accept it.

We have reached a point in this discussion where it is obviously pointless to continue. You are going to continue to believe what you want to and I’m not changing my mind on this issue either. I am not interested in going any further with this so you can have th rest of this thread to yourself. I will not be back. C-ya.

Has anyone ever noticed Bill’s nose? If so do you know what they call a nose like that? It’s a Gin Blossoms Nose ===( drinks alot)Maybe that’s whats wrong with him. He’s been hitting that “Seagrams 7″ & Juice

Oh Bill, I used to love you. Now, you make ashamed that i ever supported you.

I was checking if you have the url for the source?