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crazy!!!

first. damn

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It’s real in the field.

Can you imagine if the US public protested in the streets like this during the debacle of 2000?

When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it–always. – Mahatma Ghandi

While we are here living our lives there are people being gunned down while fighting for freedom. I am against war for profit. I am against multiple tours for soliders who are blessed enough to come back home. That being said I can not help but feel that in some way the U.S. needs to help. If we are going to fight for something fight with meaning. If a leader can only lead by massacring his/her followers who exatly is he/she leading? It is the will of the people that governs man (leadership).

Okikiamgenoka, Patz Spokoj, Goom-jigim, Shanti
Salaam Alaykum (السلام عليكم), Shalom שָׁלוֹם

Where ever you are in the world today…peace to you

The youth of Iran can do this–take back your country. This is how a revolution should be done–by it’s own people. Her death will not be in vain.

The US doesnt need to help. The US needs to stay out. Where was Iranian outrage about what is happening is Darfur? Why is “Allahu Akbar” usually followed by displays of barbarity? Islam is the religion of pieces.

@ me (the original)®

Agreed, and well said.

The United States has had our own Civil Rights movement (still so) and now Iran is having their own. It is not the place of any other nation to intervene at this time, and to put it bluntly, we simply can’t afford it. Neither with troops or money.

The people of this country are doing what’s necessary for change and as gruesome as it is, it is also refreshing to see people willing to sacrifice it all in the name of what’s true and fair.

@Bringthanoize

@Topical English

Who do you think is inciting the opposition groups in Iran? America agents? It’s not like the CIA hasn’t overthrown an elected Iranian Government before(see Iran 1953). Israeli agents- Mossad?

Btw- domestic instability is a pillar of war, recognize game, before the actual conflict in some pre combat war theaters.
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So, let me get this straight, are you saying that the US is instrumental in stirring the pot, and the fact that Mir-Hossein Mousavi for a while now had a strong following in Tehran and various other Iranian cities has nothing to do with the fact that current Iranian Leadership has already admitted that in 50 cities there were more votes than actual voters? Or the obviously tampered with poll numbers that were incremented *perfectly* released by the Iranian Government somehow had something to do with the US? If so, please explain how, especially seeing that the Ayatollah and the Religious Leaders (who are the TRUE LEADERS of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or any elected “president” is in actuality just a figurehead) are in direct opposition of the United States.

While I am aware of various coups that had US or Western World backing, both public and not so public, it doesn’t exactly seem plausible in this instance, considering that:

A) Ahmadinejad, under the direction of the Ayatollah, has opened talks with Russia. They are in negotiations.

B) Iran borders the Caspian Sea, which is home to natural resources for Russia.

The US does NOT want conflict with Russia at this point and time in any way, shape or form, so it’s highly unlikely you’ll have the US stirring the pot in this particular instance.

@eddiedollars215

We’ll see. I just don’t see anyone in power wanting a war with Russia at this time.

@ Bringthanoize

So you are saying that Iranian students are stupid. They are supposedly protesting against the government and risking death because the CIA told them to do it. You are insulting Iranians.

@eddiedollars215

Also, who is the US supporting then? Mir-Hossein Mousavi and the uprising? Why then, would the opposition–Iranian’s leadership and the Ayatollah..actually admit to rigging their election?

No doubt, the CIA does have connections within Iran, however they are not smart enough to set something off like this, nor does this situation really help the US given the number of possible outcomes.

eddiedollars and bringthanoize are on their shit…i wish the rest of the herd was on their level

I am so happy that Obama is our president and not McCain. Given our history of intervention in the Middle East and the fact that we overthrew a democratically elected goverment in Iran in the 50′s, he is not saying anything and he even said that the opposition candidate is just as bad.

He is trying to do everything he can to show that the U.S. is not behind the uprising. Anything we do to support the protestors would be counterproductive. Iranians, justifiably, want us to stay out of it.

Whoa. Hold on. The revolution that brought this current power structure in Iran was a result of them ousting the US backed regime back in the 50′s. The people demonstrating this time around are fighting for more civil freedoms and a disdain for what is widely seen as a rigged election. This revolt has very little to do with the US. That’s why Barack has a hands off approach. He doesn’t want to feed into the propaganda.
The current Iran leaders are trying to pin it on us and the Republicans are trying to get us involved. BO ain’t falling for it.

Again. These demonstrations have nothing to do with US. This is purely an Iranian issue–much like our civil rights movement. We don’t benefit from getting in the middle because the leaders of Iran can manipulate what is a very substantial hate among a a big swath of the Iran population which would in turn doom the protesters and their cause.

CNN has got very good coverage and showed the unedited version of the girl dying. Her death will carry more weight with the Iranian people and further the oppositions cause than Obama’s words.

And it’s disgusting to see Republicans use this situation as a political tool to paint the president as soft (Jimmy Carter-like). The opposition has actually ask that he not get involved, because it would be detrimental to their cause.

If anything, you’d think people would be more concerned with N Korea prepping to launch a friggin’missile at Hawaii. That could easily spell a 3rd war.

@ eddiedollars215

You are the one that has the simplistic view of events. To you, it seems, everything is done by the U.S. There is no event that happens in the world that does not go exactly to the plan of the U.S. government. You must not have had much interaction with the government. T.H.E.Y. cannot handle a simple transaction without f*cking it up. There is no way T.H.E.Y. could manage things in the way you describe.

My sympathy & support to the Iranians risking their lives to change their country.That being said-Neda & the other protesters may end up dying in vain.At it’s core this uprising is about one set of ass-backward Muslim religious leaders battling for control against another set of ass-backward Muslim religious leaders.Many people protesting in the street are in fact looking to fundamentally change the way the country is run.One can only hope that Iran becomes a nation
where Islam takes a backseat to TRUTH…DEMOCRACY…& FREE ENTERPRISE FOR ALL.

@DDub (keepin’it real since Wesley’s mugshot)
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You are spot on my friend.The Republicans look PATHETIC trying to make political hay on this issue.
I have yet to hear from any of their mouthpieces how they would “handle” this.It’s not our fight.

@white devil… yeah yeah yeah… this coming from the guy who’s glad Obama is President instead of McSame as if they were the only two options… you live in a left-right… 1-2 mickey mouse cookie cutter world… you sound like some compartmentalized procurement analyst who doesn’t understand the concept of planned obsolescence or problem… solution… reaction… don’t try and interpret my view of the world when your blinders won’t let you see past left-right…

@ eddiedollars215

N. Korea gets most of its aid from China (Russia, to a much lesser extent). It makes money off of arms sales and money laundering. They want to be a nuclear power so that they can use that status symbol as a way to leverage more aid from the world community. The missiles may be shoddy and probably wouldn’t make it but it’s a provocation. Their trying to bully the world to ease sanctions. Japan nor SK wouldn’t benefit from an irate NK (especially if they can get a fully functional nuke). They would weaponize and that would make China nervous.

At some point China have to intervene more than they are because they see themselves as the next superpower and they don’t want that region to descend into war.

does…

@ DR.FUNK
Yea they look pathetic to those paying close attention to what’s happening. But if they can get the average American to buy into it, they can start tarnishing Obama’s image.
Still, this is a pattern that persists. The Neo Conservative ideology of spreading democracy got us into the second war with Iraq. The first Bush decided against the regime change because Powell and others pushed back against them. Of course they got W to oust Saddam and now we got this mess.
Had they left Saddam in power it would have been a very different story with Iran because they kept each other in check militarily. We could have saved billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives.

@everbody without a clue shouting this left-right bullshit… what did John Bolton say regarding an attack on Iran in 2007…

On May 16, 2007, the London Daily Telegraph reported that Bush regime official John Bolton told the Telegraph that a US military ATTACK on Iran would “be a ‘LAST OPTION’ after economic sanctions and ATTEMPT TO FORMENT A POPULAR REVELUTION… had failed.”

@ eddiedollars215

My view is less black and white than yours. The United States, which has often supported democracy, overthrew the democratically elected goverment of Iran to control oil. The dictator who was then put in place by the U.S. (The Shah) was overthrown by the people and replaced with a religious government which was in some ways more repressive than the last. Currently, the protestors are trying to get a fair chance at electing their candidate. Their candidate was one of the ones pre selected by the ruling religious elite and was one of the main figures in the revolution against the Shah. The U.S. sympathizes with the protestors, who are supporting a candidate who will continue to try to build a nuclear weapon and threaten Israel and who helped overthrow the U.S.’chosen dictator. There is nothing black and white about this history. All sides can be looked at as good or bad.

@ eddiedollars215

John Bolton, Henry Kissinger and Zbignew Brezinski and not members of the current administration. I don’t think that they are the kind of people that Obama listens to.

“and not” = are not

@ White Devil

That’s a pretty accurate summation, devoid of the hyperbole, partisan talk and conspiracy nonsense that tends to take form in these types of discussions. Kudos.
Though, anytime Kissinger agrees with Obama it’s a good look, whether or not BO touts it.

Situations like this in the world really make me grateful to live in the United States. We aren’t perfect but there are ALOT of things we take for granted.

I think we should stay out of it for a couple reason.

1. We’re already too far into the middle east we need to step back.

2. The US has been accused (for good reason) over the years of meddling in Irans leadership. I don’t agree with any of the moves we’ve done in the past so why bother with them now.

3. You can’t force our style of “democracy” on another nation.

4. The people have to be willing to fight for what they believe in we can’t give them anything.

5. We wouldn’t like any country telling us how to handle our elections or the aftermath of them (2000 & 2004). Please believe if we acted like the Iranians in the street the police would be beating our asses too.

5. We don’t know if there is really election fraud. Just like every other nation there are different cultures and beliefs. The Iranians that live in the city have a different view point than Iranians in rual areas.

6. Don’t believe the hype coming from the republicans about Obamas inaction. The opposition leader isn’t more pro-America than Ahmadinajad. This is only another lame reason for them to nip at his heels. The Republicans wouldn’t do anything either and if they did they would only make it worse by suggesting that Isreal attack Iran during this chaos.

@eddiedollars 215

Interesting theory. What, then, if nothing comes of this? (which, by the way, is entirely possible.)

I hope obama is listening to kissinger

@ eddiedollars215

I listened to that speech and some in the audience laughed when he said that. He wasn’t serious. Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger all served as National Security Advisors prior to General Jones. General Jones was giving props to his predecessors. He was trying to be nice to Kissinger and he should have been more careful. Every loony conspiracy site on the internet now has taken that quote as the gospel. Kissinger, Scowcroft and Berger all had very different views on foreign policy. Brent Scowcroft came out very publically against the Iraq war and since he was very close to Bush Sr., many thought he was speaking for Bush Sr. Sandy Berger served under Clinton and was far less hawkish than Kissinger.

I have not been disturbed to the core like that in a while…the youth are the answer to a new Iran