Wednesday, November 11th, 2009
Young Brothers Locked Up For Life, at 13 and 15.
Posted by Bossip Staff
Teens Terrance Graham and Joe Sullivan were locked up for life at age 15 and 13. Graham was convicted of a home invasion and Sullivan for rape at 13.
The NY Times has a debate going on. One debater says the following:
Children do not have fully matured levels of judgment or impulse control, and they are uniquely capable of change.
Is life without parole cruel and unusual punishment for juvenile offenders convicted of non-homicide crimes?
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Topics: Bolitics
Lock the parents up!
first
if they were white, they have probation and house arrest. its amazing we make up the minority of the population, but a majority of prison population.
I can’t say no or yes because it really depends on the crime. like those kids in florida that raped and beat that woman and her son, you can not tell me that those kids did not know what they were doing. It really depends on the crime.
It all depends on the situation. If you are constantly in trouble with the law, have no respect for authority and feel as though you can do what you want at 15 then I think you should be held responsible for your actions.
I think society uses the excuse that these criminals are “kids” and shouldnt be held accountable for their actions-they should. If you are old enough to rob, rape and murder-be prepared to pay for your actions.
When you are that young and already committing horrific crimes-theres no hope for you..you’re evil to the core.
I am sick and tired of seeing children committing adult crimes, yet there is no adult taking responiblity for them.
If my teenaged child committed a crime, I would want to be held responsible for them, I would want to take and share the blame.
Of course a child knows right from wrong, and all brain acvtities are different from another. But it is proven fact that a child’s brain is under developed from an adults brain, needs guidance and needs an authoritarian figure to step in and say no when they have gone out of line or getting out of line!
Until the conscience has been somewhat nurtured, sentencing children need to be done in somewhat of a more sensitive nature, and if anything mentally impairs the conscience sentencing also has to be handled much more sensitive.
My question is, where are the parents, why arent they being blamed. Until we start naming and shaming and holding parents responsible for their sprogs, nothing would improve.
Oh and let us not forget they got sentenced in Florida … Boy they Ain’t playing down here
ok, that was a really soddy case. How, can you determine life in prison with an 8 hour trial, the woman could not even identify him, she said that “that could be his voice.” Really, Really!!! I understand being raped but you don’t just through someone in jail just to feel safe again, it could have been anyone. this would have been in appeals court if it was an adult on trial. Very, Very Sad case for the Sullivan boy.
I dont think they deserved life though…what race were the victims?if it was a black on black crime then the outcome of this situation would be diffrent..
@Tracey
I agree with some of your points but the fact still remains that ppl are still going to do what THEY want to do. I know ppl who grew up in a 2 parent household, private school,strict parents AND went to church but still turned out to be ROTTEN. Hold these “kids” accountable for their OWN actions!
So these boys were given life without no ID or DNA evidence against them? Wow what kid of promitive racist law are we still living under, wow, astonising!
Nique
@Tracey
I agree with some of your points but the fact still remains that ppl are still going to do what THEY want to do. I know ppl who grew up in a 2 parent household, private school,strict parents AND went to church but still turned out to be ROTTEN. Hold these “kids” accountable for their OWN actions!
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Well, there is always an exception to every rule, however, and on the whole parents should be held responsible for the children who are terrorising our streets day in and day out.
It is sad to see someone pay their entire life for a mistake they made in their youth.
Judge it on a case by case bases because you don’t want kids to think they will get lesser time under the law. Most kids will test their limits.
It’s easy to say that if they were white this or that would have happened. We all know that things may have been different had they been white, that being said this is not a new concept of bias. Teenagers today are fully ware of the concept of right and wrong, the problem is that they have no regards for it. They have developed an I don’t give a F*ck mentality and I say if they are going to walk among our mothers wives and daughters committing adult crimes then there should be adult consequences. We as black people continue to make excuses for our youths lake of respect for anything that is right and totally ignore the fact that we are hampering any chance of kids developing any since of self discipline or self worth. Racism may have been the culprit in the sentencing but racism had nothing to do with them invading the victims home and choosing to rape them
I hate playing the race card but I do believe race was involved here. White kids can commit murder and only get a slap on the rist, but if a black teen commits the same crime they have to get the death penalty or be thrown in prison forever.
This has been going on your hundreds of years. White people use to murder blacks as a hobby back in the 17-19 hundreds and they never paid the punishment of their crimes. I am personally sick and tired of white people, i wish they all vanished from the face of the earth. Pillaging continents, causing genocide, enslaving people, rape, genocide,etc. With all their negative actions throughout history I wouldn’t be surprised if they were the s***** on satan.
I THINK THAT ALOT OF SENTENCING HAVE TO DO WITH RACE AND I BELIEVE IN SECOND CHANCES EVERYONE DESERVE ONE IN PRISON. ITS FUNNY HOW THEY TOOK GED PROGRAMS AND THING OF THAT MAGNITUDE OUT OF PRISONS. PRISONS ARE FILLED WITH MINORITIES THAT BEEN KEPT DOWN AND ITS THEIR WAY OF KEEPING THEM DOWN FOR LIFE THOSE KIDS DID NOT DESERVE LIFE IN PRISON COME ON NOW PEOPLE WE ARE NOT STUPID WE KNOW WHERE THIS KIND OF HATE IS COMING FROM ITS TIME TO BAND TOGETHER AS ONE AND PUT A END TO THIS BULLSH*T FOR ONCE. TIME TO STOP TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK AND HELP OUT EACHOTHER
If they were white they would have gotten 12 months in Juvy! This is sad…
How bad was the rape? Was anyone murdered? If not, “life” seems a bit harsh? Even if the rape was EXTREME, it seems they would have gotten 30 years or so (or something like that). I’m ALL for “harsher” sentencing, but it needs to “make sense”. I wish I knew more of the details of this case.
“If not, “life” seems a bit harsh?”
That was meant to be a statement, not a question.
@Janae
How bad was the rape?? You serious with that question??
Graham basically STOLE from someone’s home (not that I condone it), & he got that bulls.h.i.t a.s.s sentence. As for Sullivan, that child just needs help. That is sad that they are throwing these 2 young lives away. They are no real threat to society. It just comes to show how f.u.c.k.ed up the system is. SMH.
So these boys were given life without no ID or DNA evidence against them? Wow what kid of promitive racist law are we still living under, wow, astonising!
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YES!!!! It is.
@ Nique
“How bad was the rape?? You serious with that question??”
If 13 and 15 year old boys are being locked away for “life” for rape, yes I’m serious. In my statement, I said I could see them getting 30 or so years, but I think a crime needs to be EXTREME (in some form) for a person to get life. That’s why I typed that question/statement.
Malvo all over again!! Something needs to be done because since crack is wack & gang violence isnt killing our youth the criminal justice system will handle it.
@ Smitty Black
“We as black people continue to make excuses for our youths lake of respect for anything that is right and totally ignore the fact that we are hampering any chance of kids developing any since of self discipline or self worth. Racism may have been the culprit in the sentencing but racism had nothing to do with them invading the victims home and choosing to rape them”
I agree.
Also there are ADULTS that dont even get life for rape
shavondenise said it all…they want to get our brothers behind bars for their cheap labor force and to feed into the business machine called “the Penal System”.
O come on, people kill other people and don’t get life, mostly grown ***** men. It is obviously about race. What white kids have gotten life for some bs like this?
@Janae
I understand the point you are trying to make but I think that that particular question was alittle crude.Lets not undermine what the victim went through to make a point..
@ Nique
“I understand the point you are trying to make but I think that that particular question was alittle crude.Lets not undermine what the victim went through to make a point..”
I’m sorry if you found the question to be crude or offensive. I was merely stating that I wanted to know more facts of the case. How can you ask “How severe was the rape?”, in a more “polite” manner?
@ Nique
I’m a STRONG supporter of victims rights. And, I want sexual *****ault crimes to be punished more SEVERELY. Even if it seems like it, I NEVER undermine what the victim went through. I know too many people who are the victims of sexual *****ault. I just like to know the facts (particularly the forensic facts) of any case.
@Janae
Honestly, the question is irrelevant. Rape is rape-and the effects are just the same no matter how brutal…
Being a educator as Blacks we must do better by our children. We give other permission to do as they please with our children when we don’t stand up for them. Music, Black and Milds, Videos,Wii, Sex, BET, MTV,materialism all enable our impressionable minds(youth) to be ravaged by the system. WHERE IS THE CHANGE? We must be the change
@ Nique
“Honestly, the question is irrelevant. Rape is rape-and the effects are just the same no matter how brutal…”
I agree that EMOTIONALLY “rape is rape”. However, I think there’s a “criminal” difference between say a “date rape” situation where a guy won’t after being asked (but doesn’t do EXTREME physical harm–like “tearing apart” a person’s internal organs) and a “gang rape”/”torture” situation (where a person is violated in various ways with various objects–enduring great PHYSICAL as well as emotional damage). When determining a “sentence”, I DO believe these distinctions are important. But, I agree with you that for the survivor of rape, the emotional “toll” is likely the same.
@ Nique
guy won’t STOP after being asked (I forgot that word.)
Life for home invasion????
@Janae
Your post above clarified your previous question for me…I do agree that the life sentence was a bit harsh but then again, like you said-we dont know all the facts…
@ Nique
I agree with your comp*****ion/sympathy for ALL victims of “rape”.
I’ve been following these cases and wanted to point out a few things:
1. Graham was not 15. He was 16 when the armed burglary occurred and 17 when he violated probation.
2. No one is arguing that the kids in these cases should “get off” or not be held responsible. No one is arguing they should have been treated as children and released at 18. The argument is, yes, we concede you can try them as adults and punish them harshly, but you can’t place a *permanent* judgment on a kid that young, saying they will *never* be fit to return to society, even if they change and reform in prison. The lawyers in the cases concede that, say, a life sentence with review for parole after serving a minimum of 25 years would be acceptable under the Constituion. That wouldn’t even be a guarantee that they would be released. Just a review. If they have turned into thugs in prison, the State can hold them for life. But if they have reformed, pose no risk of violence and are 40-something years old, they need to have a chance for release.
3. There is absolutely a racial component to sentencing in Florida, and everywhere else I have seen in the US. On the other hand, it is not as simple as “if you’re black you get life, if you’re white you get off.” I have personally had white clients serving life with no parole in Florida for juvenile crimes in which no one was killed, and I know of many more. That being said, overall, you have a significantly higher chance of getting a harsh sentence if you are black, and that is outrageous. I just thought I should point out that in individual cases, sentencing can be unpredictable and is not always controlled by a single factor. (For example, even the prosecutor in Graham asked for only 30 years, while the probation officer recommended 4 years. Any other judge would have given, at most, 30 years. But this judge was in a bad mood, and he handed out a life sentence that no one was asking for.)
4. The victim in Sullivan was white. And this was made quite clear at the trial. The victim in Graham’s second crime (the “home invasion” robbery that violated his probation) was Hispanic. I don’t know about the restaurant manager in the first crime (the armed burglary).
@atty following the case
Thanks for the info.
@ atty following the cases
Thanks for the insight.
That is so sad.
Did they invade the home? Did they commit rape? What other facts do you need? I hate to see young brothers fall victim to the society that quite frankly is set up to destroy them. But we can’t minimize the pain inflicted on the victim simply because they were victimized after the crime. These kids see far too much glorified gangster lifestyles that are fed to them all day everyday via movies, TV and music. Its time they see the end result of criminal actions. Instead of blaming the system we need to do a better job of conveying the message of there is nothing cool about not giving a f*ck. And the fact that you WILL be held accountable.
Good. NOW, they cant commit any more crimes that they can blame on society. Let em rot in prison. F’em.
Out on probabtion and still commit more crimes, plus they and their family know the law.
If the law set a precedent with this sentencing, and all criminals were treated like this, fine, if not it is harsh.
On the whole, if the parents cannot take responsiblity for their children, I guess the state does.
I hope these children are looked after in prision, rehiblitated, educated, trained up for manual skills and also given counselling, this is all we can ask for.
I hope these children are also used to set an example for other children and parents, maybe they should be used to go around the schools in America ans shown as an example of what can happen if you repeatedly break the laws in America.
Life for home invasion seems a tad bit Draconian, but if this person was on parole with the threat of “LIFE IN PRISON” hangin’ over his head if he violated “SAID” parole, weeeeellll the n!gga shoulda’ known better.
Life should be used in the most extreme cases. Home invasion ain’t the most extreme. Can’t say for the details of the rape, but in any case a life was not taken. It is incredulous how we can write someone off as a human being at the age of 13.
It depends on the crime. If they had *****aulted and molested my child I wouldn’t want them to ever be released again – b/c they may harm another child. It doesn’t necessarily have to be death – what if they tortured a person in a horrific manner – I wouldn’t want that person to be released.
We dont need grandma rapists to be roaming the streets unless they get their tellywackers and nuts chopped off then it is ok for parole.
We must remember locking up these boys also serves well for the black community, we do not have to deal with these thugs anymore, just ashame that who ever produced these little devils do not have to be responsible for them!
I guess it would be easy to say yes because I am a man of color and they boys are young enought to be my sons but it truly depends on the crime.
I believe we have heard over these few months some very strange and cruel crimes committed by some of our young folk. If we were on the opposite side of those crimes would we feel the same if this question were put to us?
WHAT!!!! they did.t kill any one….but they got life in prison????
The laws still haven’t deterred young black males from making mature decisions.
mediaanarchist.wordpress.com
I can say that the punishment doesn’t fit the crime only because the punishment isn’t distributed the same across the board. These young men subjected themselves to this cruel and unusual punishment by allowing there actions to speak for them. Kids these days have no sense of what it means to be an adult. I see forty and fifty year old men acting and dressing as teenagers, who’s going to set the example? Kids are bombarded with images and music that projects the illusion that being a gangster is something to be respected. No one stands up for the kids. We all know it’s wrong but when someone does come to the forefront and speaks out about how the music business is deliberately manufacturing future criminals (black kids in particular). We mock them Bossip is one of the main catalyst of spreading the Hoe sit down mentality. There is no need for the Ku Klux Klan because we are executing our own demise (far better than the Klan ever could).
throw their parents in jail for life for raising these bad ***** kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well most of us agree the justice system &UCKS for black teens, men and people – PERIOD. How could they get so much time – LEGALLY – for rape and robbing. It seems ANYTHING can be thrown at us – LEGALLY through a judge, despite the fact that most of them were racist cops from back in their day.
@ Smitty Black
“There is no need for the Ku Klux Klan because we are executing our own demise (far better than the Klan ever could).”
You SAID it!
@ Smitty Black
“Did they invade the home? Did they commit rape? What other facts do you need?”
If they committed those actions, we KNOW they’re guilty. But, the FACTS about the actions are necessary for exacting a proper and effective punishment.
“I hate to see young brothers fall victim to the society that quite frankly is set up to destroy them. But we can’t minimize the pain inflicted on the victim simply because they were victimized after the crime.”
Agreed.
Children are called CHILDREN because they lack the experience and incapable of fully understanding the consequences and depth of their actions, which is something only time and age can teach. Kids that commit serious crimes should be punished, but in a way that is appropriate for their age. Juvenile sentences should be as much about rehabilitation and therapy, as punitive. Sometimes, more serious punishment is warranted, for example heinous murders. But most child cases should be aimed at getting to the root of the child’s problems and helping them overcome and adapt and getting them back into society.
IT’S ALWAYS A HARSH SENTENCE UNTILL U BECOME THE VICTIM…….
I say throw away the key on any violent crime including rape at ANY age.
This is what happens when you worship guns & other BS. Yeah I’m talking to you GLOK ( weak boy! ) & Homo from across the water 6am
I think at some point they would understand what they did. At a very young age, you don’t really know what you are doing and I believe they were a product of their environment.
In this case, I think being locked up for life wasn’t right. But if I was the one raped, not sure how I’d feel. I just believe hope was still left for these young men.
I agree the sentences were too long. But I also think you must be accountable for your actions.
Alot of people are saying, oh, they are young and did’nt know what they were doing. Really?
When I was younger, I knew stealing, raping, and conspiring to do these things were wrong.
We have to be responsible for our actions. Stop making excuses for ending up in prison, on welfare, etc, etc. Take responsiblity for you and your children’s actions.
It’s not like they were framed. The village needs to stop ignoring the child.
The choices given to vote on are absurd
What???? they got life and they didn’t kill anybody?? besides that juveniles should not get life in prison.
BUT SINCE THEIR BLACK THE SYSTEM WILL WORK AGAINST THEM….. AS PER USUAL.
They should be punished, however I have never heard of anyone getting a life sentencing for rape or home invasion. The fact of the matter is a life sentence is to harsh for these crimes that is done in a world (system) that deliberatly produce criminals.
If its not racist then why the hell aint that little stupid boy 8 years old from AZ , who shot his dad and his uncle and killed them and they talking about they dont know what to with him..?????
Re: the race hypothesis.
When I was a negro, our parents explained to us very patiently that the rules — all of them — are different for white kids than they are for us. A white kid could be a hippy (I’m pretty old), insult the police, smoke drugs, and be a pest. But he could still cut his hair and put on nice clothes and get a job faster than a black kid could. So we were encouraged to keep our noses clean, or at the very least, not aspire to the same liberties of behavior that white kids had.
I thought then and still think that’s very good advice. It doesn’t appear that black people tell their kids that any more. I think a few years of relative calm, limited economic and political gains, and a lot more discretion by white people about their true feelings have misled a lot of black people into thinking they have the same rights, and especially the same license, that white people in America have.
This is categorically false. Repeat: black people do not have the same rights that white people do. And quite probably never will. Some injustices are beyond the reach of law, even of activism. This is grievous, but it’s not terminal. In the short term, black people need to be a lot smarter. Especially black boys and black professional athletes everywhere. We certainly aren’t going to ameliorate racism by inviting retaliatory prosecutions, even if white kids committing the same acts get off relatively lightly. The point is not to gain the same right as white kids to act like barbarians. The point is to stop committing crimes in the first place, to marginalize the criminally-oriented among us.
It was useful to know that black kids didn’t have the same options that white kids did. It made it that much easier to make sensible choices, knowing the consequences were going to be much more dire for me than for my white friends. I find it useful knowledge still.
If you’re a black parent, please tell your kids today that the rules are different for them. We can’t really afford to send any more of our kids out into a hostile environment when they’re so confused.
THEY SHOULDNT BE LOCKED UP FOR LIFE ITS A WASTE OF MONEY JUST PUT THEM TO DEATH AND GET IT OVER WITH. I SURE AS HELL DONT WANT THOSE SAVAGES WALKING THE STREETS. PS IM SICK OF BLACK PEOPLE CRYING RACISM THATS TIRED ALREADY. I HAD SOME FRIENDS VISITING ME FROM ASIA AND THEY WERE SHOCKED AT HOW SAVAGE BLACK PEOPLE ACT
Lock them up and throw away the key. I don’t feel sorry for them. At a young age they were already career criminals, they were only going to get worse with age. I say do away with the juvy system and try all criminals with the same rules and punishment regardless of age. Lock up all these young thugs.
I think that it’s a severe sentence for a crime that did not result in murder. It is not black people screaming racism it’s the fact of the matter. White people commit murder and get 15 years with the option of parole in 7 years. Young black people commit robbery and get life in prison, does that sound fair to you? People like Sev and his Asian friends should ask themselves how they would feel if the situation was reversed. BTW there are “savages” and degenerates in all races don’t try to put that only on black people. That accusation is some of your own savage qualities coming out.
what i dont understand…is the fact..that all these rapist, molesters, robbers, and all that bs…get a slap on the wrist…a young black kid can punch someone and give them the black eye and its 20 to life…like really?? wow…its just funny how no matter how much we ***** or try to fight it aint gonna stop… i dont care if we have a black lesbian woman in as presdient they gonna find a way to make the system work for them.
with a non-homicide crime??? GTFOOH……. and they got life
…yes it was a home invasion..nd yes gettin life for a crime like that is beyond ridiculous…but the 13yr old boy raped an elderly women..and what kind of 13yr old boy would even be able to think or act on that…giving these boys life in prison is not going to help anything or solve the problem…i say yes give them some time and most definitely therapy for the 13yr old boy…sending these kids to prison for life shouldn’t be the only option they could come up with..these boys need help and should receive it…although getting some time for the crime wouldn’t be bad.