Hussy’s, Hoes & Skeezoids
Posted by Bossip Staff
Here’s more drama around the LisaRaye-Michael Misick-Rocsi love triangle:
Rocsi had been walking around the Misick household in a bathrobe giving tours of the house while LisaRaye was in Atlanta for Jermaine Dupri’s So So Def weekend. Then yesterday on the Tom Joyner Morning Show, gossip contributor Jawn Murray added more fuel to the fire claiming LisaRaye told him personally that Rocsi was having an ‘out in the open’ affair with her husband and that she was going to come on the air and give out her husband’s personal phone numbers so anybody who wanted to could call and ask him why he’s being such a asshole parading his mistress around. I bet Gary Payton’s wife is saying, “That’s what you get bitch!” You ain’t know? LisaRaye was rumored to have been Gary’s thing on the side for years, despite his marriage.
Perhaps Bugs Monkey was on point about ole girl. Rocsi’s a skeezer.
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FIRST
I KNEW SHE WAS A HO!!!!
1st
damn my plan has been foiled 3rd
DAXN…THIS IS A WHOLE HEAP OF MESS!!!
yawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn
Dude is not even cute!!! He must have a gigantic d*ck.
AWWWWW DAMN ROCSI!!(IN MARTINS VOICE)
LMFAO @AUNT VIV…YOU ARE OFF THE CHAIN AUNITE!!LOL
he does have that sleez bag oily look about him…he looks like the affair type
Rocsi’s a tramp, and LisaRaye is a former (?) tramp feeling karma for real. Hot mess all around….
WHERE THE F*CK IN ERRONE AT.
MAKE Y’ALL WAY TO THE RANDOM RIDICULOUSNESS THREAD PLEASE!!
smh at madam in her bathrobe giving an mtv cribs special in a house that aint even hers…i bet the bathrobe wasn’t even hers
oh well…..my man stays in some top notch poon…
Rocsi is a bus down…….
I’ll never understand how caked-up, high-profile *****s end up slummin’ it with mediocre p*ssy like Rocsi… SMH
@ num 1 dominicano
If this is true….
Rocis is just a ship p*****ing in the night and yes this to shall p*****, and he will end up with another beautiful woman like lisa if not lisa, let’s hope they can mend their marriage.
Is there anybody out there not cheating, and keeping the love alive.. smh
DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY HAVE THE LACK OF COMMON SENSE TO BELIEVE THIS QUICKLY MADE UP FABRICATED BULL*****?
@ Moreaces…apparently not
Aww thank you sxyQblondie
@sara(Check me out!)
smh at madam in her bathrobe giving an mtv cribs special in a house that aint even hers…i bet the bathrobe wasn’t even hers
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SO TRUE!
…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, n-naw, naw i wasnt slee- iwas restin my eye- im wide awake!
…………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……
I personally can’t stand Rocsi. Every time that damn BET show comes on I HAVE to change the channel. Something about the way she looks and talks makes me cringe……..
…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, n-naw, naw i wasnt slee- iwas restin my eye- im wide awake!
…………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……
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DEAD!!!!
damn rosci need her ***** kicked da brat style! that is *****ed up!
erica.. i agree .. i dont know her but i cant stand it when she is on there… she plays with terrance and cracks on him but when he gives it back she gets mad .. with her dumb as*!!!
see those *****es love them some dark chocolate men sorry number1dumb***** go get a suntan playout hater i forgot you are albino with spiders in your hairs i thought they were braids…lol
IN THE WORD OF HOV-”HAVE AN AFFAIR ACT LIKE AN ADULT FOR ONCE.”
IN THE WORDS OF HOV-”HAVE AN AFFAIR ACT LIKE AN ADULT FOR ONCE.”
I feel for LISA
Chickens coming home to roost for real; stank as hell and a horrible example to LisaRaye’s daughter as well. Nasty!!!
From lisa to Rocsi? What a downgrade!!!!!!
what a shame..i thought lisa raye was messin with Allen Iverson…ooops.
guess 50 and G Unit were right about her….Good luck to Lisa Raye.
LOl. That Michael’s a joke-he does have that sleazy look in his eyes. As long as he knows he can pull Z-listers, he’ll keep spreading that toxic ***** around.
Are we witnessing a…..”What goes around comes around situation”???? Lisa Raye is a cutie but damn she got played.
gary payton’s rumored sideline? psssssshaaaawwww
that ***** had that ***** living in a crib and wanting for nothing.
all three are hoes..i hope they get tested regularly..
No one wanted to believe 50…
the truth hurts…
what has he said that can be quoted as a lie…
Is it me or do they look like siblings?
I hope Rihanna stop hanging out with this trick!
Well Lisa, Karma comeupeth. Not condoning cheating, but it you do it, at least get something better than what you have at home.
Rocsi is a fool… if he did that to his wife, what makes her think a effa like her is going to last?
I’m BEYOND tired of Rosci…she is a *****ody. Just a stank looking for a come-up…Rosci any real woman with will and drive can get riches herself, close ur legs and use your brain dummy.
Man Lisa, girl I’ll…
Talk about a major downgrade! SMH…Rocsi sure is triflin’
YOU DOWN WIT O-P-P????
Lisa Raye is old and tired, downgrade my *****! She was a ho for like 20 years longer than Rosci. At least Rosci didn’t have to play a stripper hoe for her first film and get famous off that.
wow, never knew lisa’s standards were that low.
uuuh, wait a min……playes’ club!!!
I never heard about Rocsi being in a “bathrobe” even when it was reported on the Tom Joyner morning show….Bossip, report it like it was told.
As for Lisa, I never heard about her cheating with G. Payton but there is a picture of her and him on indmix.com if you google Gary Payton.
As for cheating, you have no idea how much I pray to GOD my husband never cheats on me. I hope with the grace of GOD and my son that I will not go Clara Harris on him and her… Forget the money I can get from the divorce, that will come and go, this is personal.
What kills me is that chicks like Rocsi can’t think far enough to see that what goes around comes around.
If a dog cheats on his wife with you, and now you running around acting like the new “wifey,” you are only getting in line to be made a fool of next.
Oh well, guess she’s ok with being “First Concubine/First Skeezer/First Groupie of T&C” for a little while. Damn shame.
SHE MUST HAVE SOME GOOD A*S*S P*U*S*SY!! Or Misnick is a simp for light skinned women…
LisaRaye could get it all night! You lie down with dogs…Leave his ***** alone.
Rosci has a Slight Under Bite…If she practices her Oral it would go away.
lisa-ray girl you are too fine to worry i suggest you visit africa the men are packing and fine not all but most gurl you can afford to go to africa and live large mandingo is waiting trust me and don’t put up with their bull***** either!!!there are still good men out here let rodsi be the a mattress for male w*****s only he will cheat on her flat ***** too
Whats done in the dark will eventually come to light…Oh damn! Rocsi know that’s straight stank behavior…
And so what if Lisa Raye played a stripper and got famous and paid to do it…thats more than ya’ll busted *****es in here ever did!
F*ck 50…even if Rocsi did have sex with 4 men who he knows…uhmmm how many women have he screwed? and since when does 4 men constitute u as a *****…shut the f*ck up. So sick of the double standards. His whoring ***** gonna ruin somebodies reputation for telling the truth… Rocsi can sleep with who she wants EXCEPT married men…now thats some otha shyt and there’s no reason to be that shiesty and desperate.
But anywho I can’t stand 50 cent. what kinda man is he? callin a woman out her name …
Now Lisa if she was screwin Married men …honey what goes around comes around and if you really did love him…all I got to say is, I’m sure those other women loved their husbands too…
I think its a case of karma. For six years I worked @ a five star hotel in Memphis. Lisa Raye use to come in on the reuglar out in the open with married celebs. Im not making this up so what goes around comes around.
Well If Rocsi can sleep with who she wants..COME AND GET IT BABY!
I Will take LISA RAYE also! ! ! YAYA!
AUNTIE VIV! MY GAWD GAL, AND HERE I WAS TRYING NOT TO CUS AROUND YOU …AND YOU BEEN CUSSING LIKE A SAILOR! LOL! YOU HAVE ME CRYING AND ENJOYING THIS GANJA LOVE !
ROCSI DOES WHAT SHE DOES BEST…….. SLUMMIN!!!
this lisa ***** just won’t stop huh?ROCSI IS ONLY DOING WHAT LISA RAYE DID WITH ATHELETS AND ENTERTAINERS HUSBANDS . ROCSI CONTIMUE TO ***** THIS ***** TO GET YOURSELF SOME STATUS .IT’S CALLED KARMA EAT IT UP *****. LISA RAN THRU THE ALL INDUSTRIES LIKE HURRICANE !!!!RMBR LISA WHEN WE WERE AT THAT PARTY IN YOU WAS PICKING THRU MARRIED MEN LIKE YOU WAS SHOPPING AT THE MALL? RMBR WHEN YOU DID 2 MARRIED NBA PLAYERS IN ONE NIGHT AND CAME DOWN STAIRS THE NEXT MORNING IN THE LOBBY LIKE NOTHING NEVER HAPPENED THE NIGHT B4? YUP karma karma karma karma
Lisa Raye vs. Rosci
WINNER Lisa Raye hands down.
@ Always Cl*****y PLEASE DROP SOME NAMES ??????????? PLEASE TELL ME IT WAS ONE OF THOSE BASEBALL PLAYERS THAT WAS HER VICTIM!! IT A BLOG LETS GET IT POPPIN !!!!!!!
Never did like Rosci I saw her on some ghost hunters show are whatever the name of it was were you searching for ghost..she was busted then and still is now..I cant stand her big eared ***** her and Terrence are fake and phony…
@Octavia(Check me out!)
What kills me is that chicks like Rocsi can’t think far enough to see that what goes around comes around.
If a dog cheats on his wife with you, and now you running around acting like the new “wifey,” you are only getting in line to be made a fool of next.
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I was just going to say the same thing
There has to be more to this story like does Mr. & Mrs. Misick swing? If so, is that how her friend Rosci became so comfortable in the first place? Usually when partners allow another in the bedroom the Man or Woman in the relationship continues to creep with that individual whenever possible.
Also, it doesn’t surprise me that this man is attracted to a much younger woman. It is a scientific fact that men are attracted to younger and younger women as they age; it’s a reproductive thing. Men subconsciously want to have sex with the woman that will ensure good healthy children and Mrs. LisaRaye is getting up there in age.
Oh well, when this man leaves Rosci I wonder who’ll respect her used ***** up enough to love and trust her character? She’s diggin a whole for herself, not that she’s America’s sweetheart or anything. Rosci sure has tainted her reputation and I’m sure many people will appreciate knowing what she is capable of. She and Alicia Keys should exchange numbers and develop some kind of 12 steps plan for *****es who can’t keep their legs closed.
Ok maybe I’m a little unfair these men sure had something to do with it too so what’s a girl to do right? WRONG.
@ H-towndownunder(Check me out!)
Never did like Rosci I saw her on some ghost hunters show are whatever the name of it was were you searching for ghost..she was busted then and still is now..I cant stand her big eared ***** her and Terrence are fake and phony…
_____________________________________________________
CO-SIGN
well, if lisa raye was *****tin’ around with gary peyton, she got alot of nerve getting mad at rocsi and her husband. it’s called KARMA, *****.
when are these *****s gonna learn? if you take another woman’s man, eventually another woman is gonna come and take that man away from you. it happens EVERY single time. it’s the law of the universe.
we don’t know if this is really true. It sounds a bit much for any woman to be that bold. anyway, what proof do you have that lisaraye and gary payton were messing around. i think that is a lie too. if he was involved with lisaraye he would have left his wife…..she ain’t cute, and was not the mother of his first child.
Im confused as to what the rules are. If you aint giving it up you get talked about and cheated on if you do give it up people call you a *****? Glad I don’t care what other people say.
Does Lisa better not forget to say Raye have anything other than white clothes??
This is sadder than when James died on Good-Times
You know what…..cheating is one thing….all up in my **********ing crib is another. That is cause for a professional beatdown. I am talking about a tire iron to the head. That goes both ways with men & women. If you a having an affair with a married person, when you go into their house or around their kids you deserve whatever type of brick go across yo head. Dat ***** is going to catch hell cause Lisa got all type thug misses in her crew.
Come on Lisaraye — pot calling the kettle?
Gl***** House? Shoe on the other foot?
Karma????????????????????????????
CJ that was funny James on Good Times (LOL)
id ***** all them skeezos cause skeezos is the skeeziest
Once again,
There are only TWO people in a relationship. If my husband ALLOWS a woman into OUR home, then my beef is with HIM. He ALLOWED his marriage to be a joke.
Shame on him.
But then again, we STILL live in a double standard world, so of course the woman would be blamed….
go figure
Yep…GP and Lisa Raye did kick it for some time. I frist spoted them together at the Philly All Star game a while ago. They were on the way to his room. She is a tramp for real and payback is a B!^(#
@ Somer–
Not a PROFESSIONAL beatdown???!!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ma need to tuck that away for later use!
Lol!!!!!!
I keep reading about LisaRaye and the other chick…what her face? Rocsi…
However–
Hardly no one’s mentioning the fact that Lisa’s husband is as *****ty.
*****– a stiff ***** and a hot punanny has no consciuos!
* conscience!
My bad!
I’d whoop on Rocsi all up and down the stage at 106, JUST BECAUSE it’s not like she didn’t know he’s a married man, which is the same thing GP’s wife (and every other baller’s wife) should have done to LisaRaye for sleeping with their husbands. Then I’d divorce his presidential ***** and take him for everything he’s worth!… BUT you know what karma IS definitely a ***** and LisaRaye kind of brought this upon herself (via karma). I bet she’ll have a newfound respect for women who’s husbands cheat… Oh well, Praise God that life goes on!
I’m suprised Lisa did not give this chick a TRUE Southside of Chicago ***** whoopin! Karma? Don’t worry about what the ***** she be doing? Rocsi aint got nothing to do with that *****!!!
@ LISArayeateTHEwholeNBA*****
You sound bitter my dear! I mean WTF she ***** your man? Didn’t eat your *****? you wish you were her? What the ***** you worried about her karma for?
You sayin’ remember when “WE” kicked it yet got some bogus as name for the tag. ***** you were probably standing from a far or listening outside the *****ing door. Or just some simp ***** bitter *****! STFU!
Rocsi is a uuuglllly girl i never like her on BET and if Lisa did to GP wife now she knows how she feels also Gary Payton needs to be ashame of himself as well. Lise what is done in the dark will come to light wondered if the relations was a threesome Rocsi and Lisa looks like that type
LISARAYE IS A BUSTED ***** GETTING WHAT SHE DESERVE, SHE SCREWED GARY PAYTON FOR 10 YEARS WHILE HE’S MARRIED, LISARAYE EVEN HAD THE NERVE TO GO OVER TO HIS HOME AND TELL MONIQUE (GARY’S WIFE) THAT IT’S OVER BETWEEN THEM AND GET A DIVORCE.
ALL THIS ***** WAS PLANNED, JUST THINK ABOUT IT, LISARAYE IS ‘HOOD’ AND WOULD NOT LET A DAY GO BY LETTING HER MAN PARADE HIS WOMAN AROUND.
LISARAYE IS A LOWGRADE SKANK *****, NOW EVERYTIME YOU LOOK AROUND SHE’S AT ALL THESE PARTIES WOLLOWING IN HER MISERY……….
Ignorance is Contagious
Once again,
There are only TWO people in a relationship. If my husband ALLOWS a woman into OUR home, then my beef is with HIM. He ALLOWED his marriage to be a joke.
Shame on him.
But then again, we STILL live in a double standard world, so of course the woman would be blamed….
—- —- —- —– —- —- —-
you are absolutely right. im not sure if she is being blamed, but you put this story with the one a couple-a weeks ago about her sleeping with various people in the industry….. i recon i agree with buggs.
dont get me wrong…. theres plenty of blame to come around to him too, im just sayin….
@ ZOE . I CAN BELEIVE THAT ! SHE’S A BOLD CHIC . THEY F*** FOR 10 YRS STRAIGHT . LISA MUST GOT THEM HOE TRICKS DOWN PACKED !!!! WHAT DID MONIQUE SAY BACK TO HER ?
@squomp THAT’S HOW I SEE ***** TOO. DON’T GET MAD AT ROCSI HE THE ONE STICKING IT
Did she ever go back to 106th and Park with Terrence? Just wondering.
@ignorance…..I don’t know if you read my entire post but it said that goes for MEN & women. I wasn’t just blaming women.
2cute
yeah…. they “kissed and made up”
LISARAYE IS A BUSTED ***** GETTING WHAT SHE DESERVE, SHE SCREWED GARY PAYTON FOR 10 YEARS WHILE HE’S MARRIED, LISARAYE EVEN HAD THE NERVE TO GO OVER TO HIS HOME AND TELL MONIQUE (GARY’S WIFE) THAT IT’S OVER BETWEEN THEM AND GET A DIVORCE.
ALL THIS ***** WAS PLANNED, JUST THINK ABOUT IT, LISARAYE IS ‘HOOD’ AND WOULD NOT LET A DAY GO BY LETTING HER MAN PARADE HIS WOMAN AROUND.
LISARAYE IS A LOWGRADE SKANK *****, NOW EVERYTIME YOU LOOK AROUND SHE’S AT ALL THESE PARTIES WOLLOWING IN HER MISERY……….
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I don’t know where you get the idea she’s wollowing, every picture she’s in she’s partying, drunk, having a good ol time!
A potpourri of WTF who dunnit and what fo
@Bless My Soul
lisa-ray girl you are too fine to worry i suggest you visit africa the men are packing and fine not all but most gurl you can afford to go to africa and live large mandingo is waiting trust me…..
*****************************************************And there will be plenty of HIV waiting for her too!
The Turks and Caicos Islands are turning into a major soap-opera, cottdamm should’nt be, but then again all these fools on some “hoe activities, with hoe tendencies, hoes are your friends, hoes are your enemies, with hoe energy to do what you do, blew what’cha blew, screw what’cha screw…”
Rocsi needs to take that ***** back to Honduras, she’s a sperm bucket. And homeboy is a mark ***** dude, no wonder why his country ready to turn on him. And they probably got beautiful black chocolate ***** women on that island. This lame ***** dude couldn’t find nothing out of that, but Rocsi wack *****. Mother*****ers be selling ***** for that treacherous *****.
*****ody talks about this jungle bunny because before LR no one even heard of him. What goes around comes around I’m thinking it would be humiliating to LR if she cared, think she was using this short man for what she thought he could give her in the long run. BTW, isnt all his *****ests frozen?
ROCSI might actually have some good box.
I mean…its not like it can’t be true, right?
And Black women, stop hating on those German..sorry…I meant LATINA chicks. The only time the sistas give me love (most of the time, actually) is when I am with another woman already. Truth be told.
Love LISARAYE (looks and body), but she just makes poor choices in men. She needs a nice, regular, but unique, train riding, reality breathing brotha like myself.
Wasn’t this dude alleged to have had a homo thing with DUANE MARTIN???
Rocsi, I had your back with that whole you and Terrance squabble…but now you done crossed the line!! Damn, maybe 50 cent did know something we didn’t….dang gurl why you wanna be sloppy seconds?? Get your own n*gga! LOL
godiva(Check me out!)
see those *****es love them some dark chocolate men sorry number1dumb***** go get a suntan playout hater i forgot you are albino with spiders in your hairs i thought they were braids…lol
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damn *****….you coming at me from outta left field????…LOL…***** is wrong with you…..are you blind *****…cuz is not even that dark…
Lisa deserves every bit of what she is getting…That crap has come back 360 on her. Gotta love it. As for Rocsi…She is next…
no one deserves that…and I’m sure if Lisa was doing something with someone else’s man (dead wrong) I’m sure she wasn’t playing house and pretending like it was hers….
http://www.girlfriendchurch.com where we whoop the *****es of homewreckin hussies! damn can you wait to the ink is on the paper!?!
Everybody know that Rocsi is a HOE.No body wants her.
Rocsi is a jump off and she knows that her time is limited because she has no real career so she trying to secure her future on somebody’s *****..And I knew that Misick’s marriage to Lisa would not last when they had that big ***** elaborate wedding I was just counting down to divorce. Just like Rocsi, Lisa is also talentless just nice to look at but a horrible actress..Her claim to fame was playing a stripper and flashing her ***** in a low budget Ice cube movie..Reminds me of what Sharon Stone did in Fatel Attraction, she became a star for a 2 second pu$$y shot.
I’m sorry, if this is true, I think Lisa Raye set it up so she could clean up in a divorce. She’s a lot smarter than people think, so I really want to see what’s going to happen with them.
Re: Jessica. Rocsi is not much younger she’s in her early to mid 30’s, don’t believe BET they lead ppl. to believe their vj’s are younger than they are.
@ STEFANY
Reminds me of what Sharon Stone did in Fatel Attraction, she became a star for a 2 second pu$$y shot.
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you mean Basic Instinct….Fatal Attraction was Glenn Close…
SCALLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY
@ STEFANY
Reminds me of what Sharon Stone did in Fatel Attraction, she became a star for a 2 second pu$$y shot.
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you mean Basic Instinct….Fatal Attraction was Glenn Close
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@num1dominicano,
YOUR’RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! I GOT MY CRAZY PSYCHO WHITE CHICK MOVIES CROSSED UP!! THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION.
Guess she thought being this fool’s wife was gonna make him be faithful when he never was – STOP PlAYING!!! He didn’t just start this ish. Once a cheater always a cheater. Then, again, what goes around comes around.
@Ms. Sugar Wall
Da Brat gonna burst her in the head with a bottle just like she did the girl.
The only thing I agree with is giving out his phone number so he can explain why he has Rocsi in “their home”.
Lisa and her husband are both doing dirt but that is just disre-*****ing-spectful to have another woman staying at your house. I mean once the sun hits Rocsi should have been hitting the pavement. I hope Rocsi does not think this makes her look good. It only makes her look *****y…but some women like the ***** look
testing
All i have tro say is, WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND. LISARAYE, DID IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOW ITS KARMA, SHE GETTING BACK WHAT SHE PUT OUT THERE AND WHEN SHE WAS DOING IT PROBABLY DIDN’T HAVE NO REGARD FOR THE MAN’S WIFE/FAMILY ONLY HER SELFISH GAINS AND NOW SHE WEARING THEM TOO-TIGHT SHOES AND CAN STAND THAT PINCHING!!! OL WELL. NOW YOU KNOW FIND A MAN OF YOUR OWN AND LEAVE OTHER WOMEN MEN ALONE!!!
Regardless of Lisa Raye doing that to another woman, it still doesn’t make it right for Rocsi to lower herself sleeping with her husband all out in the public for everyone to know. Makes me wonder is she doing it on purpose. Judging the looks of her husband, she shouldn’t be too upset. Damn, he’s ugly! That probably why Terrence disrespects Rosci, because he knows she is a w*****.
Why doesn’t LisaRaye make a trip to HER house and whip Rocsi’s azz? That’s what I wanna know. That’s what I would do.
Ha, black b!itches stay losin.
Hey Real talk watch your freakin’ mouth, okay ?
You must be Black your self for that ignorant comment.
No that pretty latina lady in red look like a real sweetheart. Lisa Raye is beautiful too there must be some other problem in that family. Or he just want to double his fun after a long marriage.
DUDE IS UGLY….OILY AND LOOKS LIKE HE DOESN’T WIPE HIS ***** PROPERLY..U KNOW I ROLL KINDA DUDE AND THE REST FO DOO-DOO ON HIS HAND…AND I KNOW HE AIN’T CIR*****CISED..EEEEEEEEWWWW TO THE EEEEEEEEEEW.
Rocsi is a HO and dude is ugly and dirty. Yuk to both of ‘em.
From one Ho to the next!!!
Jessica @ 6:46, you sure as hell aint hot & look all of 45 yoself! its not the age thing i’m trippin about, you just busted in the face. lisaraye looks TONS better than yo busted azz!
Well if Rocsi is bangin or was bangin this guy it hasnt affected her career. Reginald Hudlin(producer of 106 and V. Prez of BET) is known to drop people with a quickness just like diddy. So if Hudlin is bangin her too I guess their even.
i don’t know about havin a big ***** but he definitly got a big bank account.
Well, this is a sad situation what gos around always comes back around.Two wrongs doesn’t make a right.Lis
a raye God is Good hold your head up.payback is a b&&
CH this is things that happens everyday in our societ
y and our kids see these actions.God will see them thru.
I’ve been mentioning to people all day long to read this thread!!